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Blues v Coventry |
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Bedfordian 
British and Irish Lion 
Joined: 24 May 2018 Location: St Neots Status: Offline Points: 191 |
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 Posted: 12 Mar 2022 at 13:30 |
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Thanks for the clarification, if it’s that black and white I wonder why it took the ref, the AR’s, two team captains and others 10 minutes to work it out. Happened just infront of me and no one seemed to know what would happen once two props were injured
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Kimbo
World Cup Winner 
Joined: 31 May 2007 Location: 'incleh Status: Offline Points: 5990 |
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Posted: 12 Mar 2022 at 13:47 |
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All it takes is for one of those people to contest it and it's going to rumble on until a full consensus is achieved. Who knows, maybe the fourth and fifth officials were conflabbing and Googling off-field  And yes, it's that black and white, so probably time to move on.
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Bluesman11
World Cup Winner
Joined: 13 May 2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1046 |
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Posted: 12 Mar 2022 at 20:33 |
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To be clear it’s not as black and white as you’ve said. I am sad enough to have read the actual rules today and if both props are injured due to a contact injury, then you do need to lose an extra player. However, if one of those injuries was caused by foul play, or is from a HIA, then you are not required to lose an extra player. In this case, one of the Cov injuries was a HIA, hence they did not lose an extra player. So I think they did make the right decision eventually but I don’t understand why it took them so long to figure it out when it’s literally their job to know the rules of rugby, however niche they may be. And it’s not like this hasn’t happened before, it happened in the 6 nations and twice to bedford last year.
The rules themselves I think are nonsense. They were brought in to stop teams feigning injuries to go to uncontested scrums. Hence why 2 injuries not caused by foul play does require the extra player lost. However, these rules were originally made before HIA was a thing. I’m not for 1 second suggesting Coventry abused these rules, but if a team wanted to go to uncontested they could just take both props off for a HIA (I’m not sure how independently verified these are?) It seems a little unfair that a team can lose a prop to injury, then from that point any yellow card to the other prop loses you 2 players. It doesn’t make any sense and I don’t think it’s achieving what it set out to do. On a larger point, one of my biggest bug bears as a whole is why are props yellow carded for not being good at scrummaging? You don’t yellow card a centre that keeps missing tackles or dropping the ball. You see it where a team is getting battered in a scrum. The referee speaks to the prop. What do you expect him to do, suddenly become a better scrummager? Just seems madness that if your scrum is weak, you can end up giving away constant penalties (fair enough) but are then also being down to 12 men. It seems like triple jeopardy |
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The Blues
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Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Status: Offline Points: 4700 |
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Posted: 12 Mar 2022 at 20:56 |
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Blues lost it from butchering the few opportunities in the 2nd half, the 1st they didn’t see much of the ball and when they dropped it. I think one of the earliest plays Coventry went backwards with ball in had but gained 60 ish metres, from 3 Blues errors albeit it was wet and the full back was the 1st time he had played there in a long time with Lane playing for Bristol on Sunday. We have been so up and down this season, we should be up the top of the table but seem to struggle more against the lower league teams than the higher league ones! In terms of that penalty kind of reversal! A Blues player was penalised for easing with his shoulder the chasing Coventry player to the box kick. So penalty Coventry you would think! However, the assistant who spotted this and told the referee. The penalty was awarded to Bedford with a Coventry player throwing his arms in the air to say how could that be the case, then he allowed Blues to take the penalty after a pause, kick it to touch to about 7m out, march up the pitch 40m, the hooker to dry the ball and the players virtually ready to take the line out before he realised that all of this should not have happened! Then he told the referee he’d messed up and the minute between all this happening shouldn’t have happened!
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covchopper
First XV squad 
Joined: 13 May 2010 Location: Coventry Status: Offline Points: 51 |
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Posted: 12 Mar 2022 at 22:28 |
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So basically you are saying that the decisions were all correct eventually. Just took a bit longer than normal get the right decisions. Glad we cleared that up then.
Always wondered why people get so wound up at the time it takes to get a decision correct. As long as they stop the watch so no playing time is lost what’s the problem? Better to have the correct decision than acting in haste resulting in an unjust outcome. Ho hum.
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C'mon Cov
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Bedfordian
British and Irish Lion
Joined: 24 May 2018 Location: St Neots Status: Offline Points: 191 |
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Posted: 13 Mar 2022 at 07:51 |
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Glad it wasn’t just me who thought it wasn’t black or white. If you have the world rugby laws app, it shows a table of the permutations around the situation and there are 36 different outcomes. If both injuries were down to contact then Cov should have gone down to 14. If either was a head injury then they stayed at 15. That was what the 10 mins was for, the benches arguing around what the injuries were. It seemed like the benches and medical staff were not believing each other leading to the protracted discussions.
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covchopper
First XV squad
Joined: 13 May 2010 Location: Coventry Status: Offline Points: 51 |
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Posted: 13 Mar 2022 at 10:07 |
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What a lovely charitable bunch the Bedford supporters are clamouring for a team to go down to 14 men when 2 props get injured and then not trusting the Cov medical team. I hope you don’t find yourself with 2 injured props in a game. Would you rather see a game spoilt by a team going down to 14 men through no fault of their own just to get the victory? What Corinthian values!
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C'mon Cov
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Bluesman11
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Joined: 13 May 2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1046 |
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Posted: 13 Mar 2022 at 10:30 |
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But those are the rules? And who said we (the supporters) didn’t trust the Coventry medical team? Bedford last season suffered from that stupid rule twice. One time due to injuries and one time it meant we had to play 12 v 15. So I think at the time we were aggrieved as to why it seemed when it happened to us we had to lose a player but not when it was the opposition.
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islander
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Joined: 17 Mar 2010 Location: jersey Status: Offline Points: 7175 |
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Posted: 13 Mar 2022 at 16:47 |
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Can anyone honestly say that as a supporter of a home side beaten in the circumstances described, even tho' it turned out the laws had eventually been applied correctly, they would not be somewhat aggrieved?
This was one of the games referred to,12 months ago, with discipline not injury the cause: 3 different Blues props earning yellow cards, including two at the same time: https://www.jerseyreds.je/match_report/bedford-blues-20-jersey-reds-25/
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The Blues
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Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Status: Offline Points: 4700 |
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Posted: 15 Mar 2022 at 21:32 |
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The real issue is how can a Championship standard officiating team: 1. Need to drag out a law book for about 10 mins in the middle of the match to read it. 2. An assistant referee can tell a referee that a team should be penalised and then allowed the minute of play to go on before he finally realises that this all should not have happened and the penalty should be the other way round. I am sure any how crowd would be dissatisfied if they had to witness such sub-standard officiating for what is supposedly a professional league.
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Whistle watcher
First XV regular 
Joined: 17 Jun 2019 Location: Midlands Status: Offline Points: 91 |
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Posted: 16 Mar 2022 at 16:41 |
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1 - to reach the correct decision
2 - see 1, above.
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Camquin
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Joined: 01 Jun 2007 Location: Cambridge Status: Offline Points: 10670 |
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Posted: 16 Mar 2022 at 17:52 |
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How much would it cost to give all National panel referees and ARs a set of laminated flow charts for man-off in Premiership, Championship and National Leagues, that fit in their wallet along with the cards.
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Sweeney Delenda Est
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The Blues
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Posted: 16 Mar 2022 at 20:14 |
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There is no issue with having correct decisions. However, 2,818 people do not come to watch a book club! A referee and assistants in a professional league should know what the laws of the game are and then implement the ones they have awarded. It was a comedy act, which left most paying fans confused what was going on.
Edited by The Blues - 16 Mar 2022 at 20:15 |
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Monkey Magic
British and Irish Lion
Joined: 20 Nov 2015 Location: Congleton Status: Offline Points: 171 |
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Posted: 16 Mar 2022 at 22:17 |
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"How much would it cost to give all National panel referees and ARs a set of laminated flow charts for man-off in Premiership, Championship and National Leagues, that fit in their wallet along with the cards."
The 4th Official has the matrix that covers all circumstances either in a laminated form/flowchart or on their phones and is used as has been described if there is any question of the correct procedures . It normally only takes a couple of minutes to sort- it may seem like 10 to those watching but if it was 10 mins then it is certainly unusual.
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Whistle watcher
First XV regular
Joined: 17 Jun 2019 Location: Midlands Status: Offline Points: 91 |
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Posted: 17 Mar 2022 at 17:03 |
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Oh dear.
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Bedfordian wrote: