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Champ clubs reject Prem 2 franchise model

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workerbee View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote workerbee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2023 at 14:31
I think the Championship clubs have made it clear what they want. 
  1. A level 2 league which is accessible to all clubs based on their ability and results in the lower leagues.
  2. Promotion and Relegation is sacrosanct.
  3. A meaningful league programme based on a 12/14 team format. 
They were unanimous at the last meeting that they did not want a franchise league , although this seems to be ignored by the RFU at the last Council meeting, when they inferred that there was no vote on the franchise model and it was still up for debate. They have now opted to go directly to those clubs involved and try to get them to agree to their model. I think the strategy is called "Divide and Rule" in the hope they will get enough of the Championship clubs will agree and then fill the spaces with franchise clubs. 

What I would say the main issue is that the RFU will not sit down with the championship directly and put their model in writing, which would allow the Championship to put their proposals
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Richard Lowther View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2023 at 15:31
I'm reviving Wakefield and bidding for a place in Premiership 2. 

We meet the criteria, we are a club with heritage, international representatives, World Cup winners, we have no ground, no team and no money.

Perfect candidates. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2023 at 15:46
When the Championship clubs first rejected the Franchise Premiership 2 I said RFU would impose it -:it seems I was correct.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote corporalcarrot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2023 at 15:58
Originally posted by castleparknight castleparknight wrote:

Originally posted by Greg Greg wrote:

Surely in any negotiation both parties are required to put their proposition forward.
Why aren't the Championship making clear what they want/expect in the creation of a revised second tier? At the moment they only appear to say what they don't want - a position that simply gives all the decision-making back to the other party.

Totally agree that Championship clubs need to be clear in what they want
How about these three things for starters:
  1. A sensible funding allocation from the RFU which supports a semi-professional second tier
  2. Promotion & relegation determined exclusively on playing merit.
  3. Scrap the daft ground criteria requiring huge investment on stadiums which would never be filled.
Dont kick it. Pick it up and GO FORWARD.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Eddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2023 at 16:56
Any stock market listed company with a similar quantum of revenue as the RFU and behaved in the manner that the RFU has done for the last 20 years would probably be de-listed as it is unlikely any institutional investor would touch them...because:

1. There is no accountability to the vast majority of its shareholders (the member clubs)
2. Although the RFU has only one class of shares it treats individual shareholders very differently even though each shareholder only has one vote 
3. A tiny minority of shareholders (10 in total) each get 100+ times more of the available RFU resources than is enjoyed by most of the other shareholders
4. The RFU's Executive management team have under performed for the last 20 years
5. The CEO's pay packet is obscenely disproportionate to his abilities, the lack of risk and the scandalous lack of performance
6. The RFU is able to change its announcements/timetables at will with absolutely no regard for the impact on its shareholders (other then those special 10 shareholders)
7. The RFU doesn't engage with 99.95% of its shareholders but does engage fully and comprehensively with shareholders that collectively total less than 0.05% of the shareholder base
8. The RFU's Articles of Association and its corporate governance structures appear to perpetuate cronyism and a shocking lack of accountability
9. The sport the RFU is administering is in serious decline even without considering the existential threat of the 'concussion issue' 
10. The senior executives led by the CEO seem to be deluded and 'all over the place like a mad woman's p**s'

I would be a short seller of such a company......that is if I was able to find any buyers who would enable me to take such a short position



Edited by Big Eddie - 06 Dec 2023 at 17:01
''The future isn't what it used to be''
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote corporalcarrot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2023 at 19:16
Originally posted by Big Eddie Big Eddie wrote:

Any stock market listed company with a similar quantum of revenue as the RFU and behaved in the manner that the RFU has done for the last 20 years would probably be de-listed as it is unlikely any institutional investor would touch them...because:

1. There is no accountability to the vast majority of its shareholders (the member clubs)
2. Although the RFU has only one class of shares it treats individual shareholders very differently even though each shareholder only has one vote 
3. A tiny minority of shareholders (10 in total) each get 100+ times more of the available RFU resources than is enjoyed by most of the other shareholders
4. The RFU's Executive management team have under performed for the last 20 years
5. The CEO's pay packet is obscenely disproportionate to his abilities, the lack of risk and the scandalous lack of performance
6. The RFU is able to change its announcements/timetables at will with absolutely no regard for the impact on its shareholders (other then those special 10 shareholders)
7. The RFU doesn't engage with 99.95% of its shareholders but does engage fully and comprehensively with shareholders that collectively total less than 0.05% of the shareholder base
8. The RFU's Articles of Association and its corporate governance structures appear to perpetuate cronyism and a shocking lack of accountability
9. The sport the RFU is administering is in serious decline even without considering the existential threat of the 'concussion issue' 
10. The senior executives led by the CEO seem to be deluded and 'all over the place like a mad woman's p**s'

I would be a short seller of such a company......that is if I was able to find any buyers who would enable me to take such a short position

The VC interest in prem rugby distorts the whole landscape of rugby. They seem to hold all the winning cards mate.
Dont kick it. Pick it up and GO FORWARD.
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SK 88 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SK 88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2023 at 19:47
Originally posted by Richard Lowther Richard Lowther wrote:

I'm reviving Wakefield and bidding for a place in Premiership 2. 

We meet the criteria, we are a club with heritage, international representatives, World Cup winners, we have no ground, no team and no money.

Perfect candidates. 

In all seriousness.

Yes.

That is exactly what they would support & exactly what they are aiming for.

If Waterloo sold the rights to exploit their name to a bidder from Liverpool the RFU would jump at the chance. 
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SK 88 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SK 88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2023 at 19:49
Originally posted by workerbee workerbee wrote:

I think the Championship clubs have made it clear what the want. 
  1. A level 2 league which is accessible to all clubs based on their ability and results in the lower leagues.
  2. Promotion and Relegation is sacrosanct.
  3. A meaningful league programme based on a 12/14 team format. 
They were unanimous at the last meeting that they did not want a franchise league , although this seems to be ignored by the RFU at the last Council meeting, when they inferred that there was no vote on the franchise model and it was still up for debate. They have now opted to go directly to those clubs involved and try to get them to agree to their model. I think the strategy is called "Divide and Rule" in the hope they will get enough of the Championship clubs will agree and then fill the spaces with franchise clubs. 

What I would say the main issue is that the RFU will not sit down with the championship directly and put their model in writing, which would allow the Championship to put their proposals to the RFU. 

So, under this logic the Championship clubs would reject the French LNR model?

Teams are not allowed to be promoted into ProD2 without passing a promotion audit, I think 3 or 4 teams in the 20 years have failed it.

Teams are relegated for off the field offences, Mont du Marsan got relegated from the top tier to the third tier for financial offences.

Or are there caveats in those wants where a compromised position could be found?
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SK 88 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SK 88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2023 at 19:51
Originally posted by FHLH FHLH wrote:

Slight divergence - will the England Central Contracts funding be top sliced from existing Premiership funding or will it be found elsewhere? Couldn't find anything obvious to clarify.

From the, rather large, budget for match fees.

The idea goes that 15-25 players would effectively swap the majority of their match fees for guaranteed wages, with maybe 20% variable on selection or whatever.
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