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Cup 2nd Round Predictions, Fixtures etc
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Big Eddie View Drop Down
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Originally posted by corporalcarrot corporalcarrot wrote:

Originally posted by Brizzer Brizzer wrote:

Wow! Some scores today. The Championship really has made a statement in these first 2 weeks. Yes, the WC is on, but they have the funding, we don’t.
Well done guys, every club should be proud of themselves. A long way to go mind!!

Great post mate but there is a clear mismatch between the selection policy of Championship & premiership clubs. Premiership clubs seem to use the fixtures to "blood" new talent but this ignores the fact that MOST CHAMPIONSHIP CLUBS (Ealing & Cov may be different) have limited squads and can only field their best (or near best)  23. The Bath v Jersey game today was a typical example - Jersey fielded the team they would select against Donny or Cov and in the second half fitness and power & a strong bench showed. I am amazed in their first home game in front of 7K fans Bath didn't put a more experienced side out.  The key take-a-way from today and Ealing's game last week is that Premiership academy squads will struggle against the better Championship sides.


Two very good observations. I would go a step further. In my view the Premiership sides their supporters and the media  generally believe in the innate superiority of their players and their product. Of course this is only true because the RFU support the Premiership sides with all the funding allowing them to be full time athletes and their conditioning and preparation is a zillion times better because of their status. 

However, I have seen many players at levels 2, 3 and 4 who had the ability and talent to be top international players but they either didn't get the chance or they had other careers outside the game and they had no intention of giving that up for a full time rugby career.

This competition and the brilliant performances by Jersey, Ealing and Coventry is starting to shed more public light on the disgrace of the divisive nature of 'apartheid' English rugby which perpetuates an established and entitled elite.

I will be rooting for Ealing today
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I’ve been really rooting for all the Championship sides and would love it if 2 or 3 made it through to the knockout stages. 

The attitude of some of the Premiership sides towards the competition has been contemptuous. Calling it a ‘development competition’ and short changing their own fans in the process is despicable in my view. I have no problem with squad rotation but they have to put out teams that they genuinely believe can win. How they expect their own fans to be engaged in the competition, let alone new fans, whilst simultaneously not taking it seriously says all you need to know about their arrogance and perceived superiority. 

It highlights to me once more that the Premiership sides should be stripped of the academies. Bring them fully under the RFU, link them with the university teams and have a draft system for when they graduate. That will stop the nonsense situation of having young players on their books with no competitive matches to play. 
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Bristol 12 (2T) - Ealing 12 (2T)  HT

Edited by gerg_861 - 17 Sep 2023 at 15:29
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The other thing which is being forgotten is the odds are stacked in the Premiership teams with all the home games. Blues has to travel to both Sale and Newcastle during the day to play 6 days later. That’s a lot of travel where a Premiership club would stay overnight. Newcastle also had Radwan (England) and Orlando (Argentina) internationals and we still were close to them.
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Originally posted by gerg_861 gerg_861 wrote:

Bristol 12 (2T) - Ealing 12 (2T)  HT

Howay Ealing big second half lads will win it.
Dont kick it. Pick it up and GO FORWARD.
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Try for Cornish from Ealing driving maul.
If Bristol get no points they would still be bottom of their pool
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Trailfinder.  Just want to clarify something. You said "Calling it a ‘development competition’ and short changing their own fans in the process is despicable in my view.^

In fact, that is the stated intention of the Premiership Cup.
 " new Premiership Cup was created to re-establish the significance of the domestic cup competition and support development of younger English Premiership players by providing a platform to compete in more matches at Premiership stadia.[6]

I'm a Bris supporter and just hope we can give Ealing a good game today. Would love a Champ team to win the xup and agree with all the arguments about funding etc. 
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If Ealing manage to hang on and beat Bristol, they will be in box seat to win their group, as will Jersey if they manage to prevail over Exeter (easy if you say it quickly). HOWEVER, surprise surprise Jersey meet Ealing in the ‘extra’ group game which makes it unlikely that both teams will have enough to both qualify. Cov are in a good position as long as they beat Glaws.
I am desperate for any Champ side to go through and even make it to the final. Call it what you like, championship sides beating PL sides in their own back yard is embarrassing for the PL. yes, the internationals aren’t there, but with the funding disparity, this league is punching well above their weight…… Come on ET, bring the bacon home against the Bears!!
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PREMIERSHIP RUGBY CUP
Dont kick it. Pick it up and GO FORWARD.
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Premiership Rugby Cup Table - Rugby Union - BBC Sport
Dont kick it. Pick it up and GO FORWARD.
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Well done Ealing! 
 Think some on here would be surprised how supportive most prem club supporters are of Champ rugby - especially those from the clubs who have spent some time here (with the possible exception Sarries).  I hope,come the Cup playoffs, any prem teams left in the competition will not be tempted to go fully loaded, but it sounds as though most on here would prefer otherwise. 
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Well done Ealing 👏

Table top clash next week, guessing you guys are hot favourites for next week.
Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny!
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Originally posted by EverOptim8stic EverOptim8stic wrote:

Trailfinder.  Just want to clarify something. You said "Calling it a ‘development competition’ and short changing their own fans in the process is despicable in my view.^

In fact, that is the stated intention of the Premiership Cup.
 " new Premiership Cup was created to re-establish the significance of the domestic cup competition and support development of younger English Premiership players by providing a platform to compete in more matches at Premiership stadia.[6]

I'm a Bris supporter and just hope we can give Ealing a good game today. Would love a Champ team to win the xup and agree with all the arguments about funding etc. 

Thank you, I stand corrected on this point. I realised the competition was used as such but didn’t realise this was its primary purpose. I think the Premiership clubs are using these as replacement season ticket matches given the reduction in the league games which I think this calls into question now. 

Delighted with the win today, listening on the radio it seemed the conditions made for a very stop start game but interestingly once again it seems a Championship side has had a noticeably better second half. Better conditioning perhaps or just more team cohesion than a team of players that rarely play together?
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Originally posted by EverOptim8stic EverOptim8stic wrote:

Well done Ealing! 
 Think some on here would be surprised how supportive most prem club supporters are of Champ rugby - especially those from the clubs who have spent some time here (with the possible exception Sarries).  I hope,come the Cup playoffs, any prem teams left in the competition will not be tempted to go fully loaded, but it sounds as though most on here would prefer otherwise. 

another fair point, I think supporters of all teams conflate the stance of rival clubs with those of their supporters. The Premiership club fans who did stick with their team’s following relegation to the Championship were all gracious and understood the true value of lower league rugby. 
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Originally posted by corporalcarrot corporalcarrot wrote:

Originally posted by Brizzer Brizzer wrote:

Wow! Some scores today. The Championship really has made a statement in these first 2 weeks. Yes, the WC is on, but they have the funding, we don’t.
Well done guys, every club should be proud of themselves. A long way to go mind!!

Great post mate but there is a clear mismatch between the selection policy of Championship & premiership clubs. Premiership clubs seem to use the fixtures to "blood" new talent but this ignores the fact that MOST CHAMPIONSHIP CLUBS (Ealing & Cov may be different) have limited squads and can only field their best (or near best)  23. The Bath v Jersey game today was a typical example - Jersey fielded the team they would select against Donny or Cov and in the second half fitness and power & a strong bench showed. I am amazed in their first home game in front of 7K fans Bath didn't put a more experienced side out.  The key take-a-way from today and Ealing's game last week is that Premiership academy squads will struggle against the better Championship sides.


I think it's been great so far, there has been a lot of arrogance in the Premiership recently that the Prem Cup is a better standard than the Championship.  I think that argument has been knocked into a Huckleberryed hat.  As a fan it's better to see new/different teams & better to see our young players against adult men rather than other kids.

I would have thought there has been some soul searching at Bath & Northampton about the quality of their young players after these results. Compare to Quins fight back against Cov surely given them loads of confidence when those boys are needed for League & European games. 
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Originally posted by Trailfinder Trailfinder wrote:

I’ve been really rooting for all the Championship sides and would love it if 2 or 3 made it through to the knockout stages. 

The attitude of some of the Premiership sides towards the competition has been contemptuous. Calling it a ‘development competition’ and short changing their own fans in the process is despicable in my view. I have no problem with squad rotation but they have to put out teams that they genuinely believe can win. How they expect their own fans to be engaged in the competition, let alone new fans, whilst simultaneously not taking it seriously says all you need to know about their arrogance and perceived superiority. 

It highlights to me once more that the Premiership sides should be stripped of the academies. Bring them fully under the RFU, link them with the university teams and have a draft system for when they graduate. That will stop the nonsense situation of having young players on their books with no competitive matches to play. 

Was with you until this point. Cutting the tie between the top of the game & youth development would be a massive backwards step.

Drafts only work in US sport because of the very high salaries mean it is reasonable to force players to move across the country for the jobs. Even then it is only legal because of the collective bargaining agreements make it so. For a £20k starter contract it is simply not going to work or be enforceable.  That's before you consider the high value of local players coming through for local teams or what happens to the players who leave school at 16 to take vocational courses, or those with no interest in university.  Remember uni graduates who cannot pay their fees up front now have the highest marginal tax rate, with a supplemental 9% income tax likely for their entire working lives. 

What would be better is expanding the academy system to cover the whole country properly, linking those to Championship & occasionally National 1 sides, and then having a genuine develop competition for all those sides aged 18-23 not dissimilar to France's Espoirs system.  To be realistic there would be a mix of contracted players & amateur players who have greater freedom of movement.  Personally I'd also go with National League rules on 20 man squads & 10 interchanges to encourage positional versatility.
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I fear I have unintentionally hijacked this thread, my draft idea was just to help with levelling up and take away some of thepower the prem has over the RFU. 

Anyway, I think all the Champ teams should be very proud of their performances so far. Fingers crossed we get a couple of representatives in the knockout stages. 
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Very pleased with that outcome. As a reminder, the Bears squad featured a 28 cap Ireland International at Scrum Half, and a 16 cap Welsh International at Fly Half, so this was very much a mixed side, and not just a 'get the kids in' side.

Will be interesting to see if Ealing stick with the same team vs. Donny next weekend.


Edited by gerg_861 - 17 Sep 2023 at 17:49
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I suspect with two wins now we will go all out to qualify. Just realised that only the top team in each group goes through to the semi final so having a single representative from the Champ would be an achievement. 
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You have tough games against Doncaster and Jersey.
We will try to give you a competitive match, but have no expectation of actually beating you.

We are using these games to learn where we need to be, with the aim of attempting to survive in the Championship.
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