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Championship for Leicester?

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The Blues View Drop Down
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    Posted: 29 Dec 2021 at 08:36
Probably won’t happen to Leicester if found guilty.

Leicester Tigers: Premiership salary cap director investigating historical image rights allegations https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/59809659
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castleparknight View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote castleparknight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2021 at 09:21
If they are found guilty should they not face the same penalty as Saracens.

Would that then mean that two go up? I cannot see the PRL or RFU allowing this to happen and then Leicester having to stay in the Championship for a couple of years...... yeah right that is bound to happen, they will move heaven and earth to prevent that from happening.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PiffPaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2021 at 09:36
The RFU tend to go with Precedents and Tariffs.

If the alleged offense is deemed the same or worse than Sarries then points deduction and ultimately relegation should follow. If a lesser offense points deduction and a fine might suffice.

The precedent was set by the Sarries case.

Not 100% how they would handle relegation after the RFU stated "no relegation" they might double up on the points deduction bit, 50 points this season, 50 points next. No Euro Rugby for 2 years or more for Tigers will be a killer, interesting that they've let two big earners go (Ford and Genge) almost like they are trying to cut the wage bill to a more "even" salary level??

Think David Barnes will be the busiest man at Twickenham in the New Year!

  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brizzer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2021 at 09:37
Originally posted by castleparknight castleparknight wrote:

If they are found guilty should they not face the same penalty as Saracens.

Would that then mean that two go up? I cannot see the PRL or RFU allowing this to happen and then Leicester having to stay in the Championship for a couple of years...... yeah right that is bound to happen, they will move heaven and earth to prevent that from happening.

I should imagine that if found guilty Sarries will be screaming for Leicester to face the same sanction. The RFU/PL have set a precedent
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2021 at 10:26
Originally posted by castleparknight castleparknight wrote:

If they are found guilty should they not face the same penalty as Saracens.

Would that then mean that two go up? I cannot see the PRL or RFU allowing this to happen and then Leicester having to stay in the Championship for a couple of years...... yeah right that is bound to happen, they will move heaven and earth to prevent that from happening.


Sarries penalty was 35 points deduction, they were also asked to open their books to prove they were within the salary cap for that season - they declined to do so, choosing to take relegation instead (read into that what you may)

Leicester's case would presumably follow the same path if found guilty - although they may make different choices to Sarries.

A little early to start thinking of 2 up from the Championship IMO - I would suspect that if Leicester were relegated it is more likely the Premiership would play with 13 again or even no promotion and play with 12 with the possibility of jumping to 14 the following season (no chance of Leicester not finishing in top 2 of Championship)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2021 at 10:35
With Sale snapping up star players one after the other (Tuilagi last year, now Ford for next year) and having 10-15 South Africans in their squad, I am surprised how they can be within the Salary cap.

Bristol, also have a number of high profile players and have now re-signed Genge for next year.

Perhaps the RFU should inspect the books of all Premiership clubs without delay?

As for punishment for exceeding the salary cap I would suggest that any club found guilty of such should lose their RFU funding for the following season - this would save the hard-up RFU some money.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thatbloke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2021 at 10:39
Which they could then invest into the community game - NOT - more likely extend Eddie's contract and give him a big pay rise
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheshire exile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2021 at 10:57
I suspect South Africans are cheaper than home based players. Converting their salaries back to SA rand will give them a hugely comfortable post playing-retirement position back home.

Edited by cheshire exile - 29 Dec 2021 at 17:44
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote castleparknight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2021 at 11:32
Originally posted by cheshire exile cheshire exile wrote:

I suspect South Africans are cheaper than home based players. Converting their salaries back 8th SA rand will give them a hugely comfortable post playing-retirement position back home.

My thoughts exactly....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2021 at 12:39
Originally posted by cheshire exile cheshire exile wrote:

I suspect South Africans are cheaper than home based players. Converting their salaries back 8th SA rand will give them a hugely comfortable post playing-retirement position back home.


That may be correct, especially for the average Saffa.

However I was under the impression that there is a payment from the RFU which is connected to the number of English qualified players in each match day squad.

Assuming this is still correct they must be forgoing this every game?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote castleparknight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2021 at 12:55
If it was anything like the £20K (I am happy to be corrected) that the Championship got paid for the whole season then clubs will probably happily forgo that option.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2021 at 14:54
Originally posted by castleparknight castleparknight wrote:

If it was anything like the £20K (I am happy to be corrected) that the Championship got paid for the whole season then clubs will probably happily forgo that option.


No idea how much it was, but I would seriously doubt it was as low as £20k a season - more like £20K a game?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote marigold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2021 at 15:32
Champ clubs get max £150k for this season but some of that ring fenced to only be spent on certain areas eg £50k on medical. Lot less than the £560k before the pandemic-and even then the majority were losing money each season. Full time 2nd tier pro league simply not financially possible
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OldNick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2021 at 15:47
That final sentence is nonsense.

Add 'self funded through gate receipts' and it is accurate, or add 'without central funding'.

It is only impossible when the RFU has decided that all its funding goes to white elephant gin palaces, or what are becoming increasingly obviously Lovely Premiership teams.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dropout22 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Dec 2021 at 01:37
Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

With Sale snapping up star players one after the other (Tuilagi last year, now Ford for next year) and having 10-15 South Africans in their squad, I am surprised how they can be within the Salary cap.

Bristol, also have a number of high profile players and have now re-signed Genge for next year.

Perhaps the RFU should inspect the books of all Premiership clubs without delay?

As for punishment for exceeding the salary cap I would suggest that any club found guilty of such should lose their RFU funding for the following season - this would save the hard-up RFU some money.

Sale have been known before for operating a very small first team squad at one stage just 31 players, this in turn enabled them to afford these players as they had less players overall to cover the £7m or £5m etc, whilst other clubs may have first team squads of 42-45.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dropout22 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Dec 2021 at 01:40
Originally posted by marigold marigold wrote:

Champ clubs get max £150k for this season but some of that ring fenced to only be spent on certain areas eg £50k on medical. Lot less than the £560k before the pandemic-and even then the majority were losing money each season. Full time 2nd tier pro league simply not financially possible

Last season was £150k, this season is £161k - an upgrade courtesy of PRL!

Even that pre pandemic figure was sometimes alot higher , some clubs recieving £690k in the 2019/20 season. The drop is incredible, however it was slightly worrying the number of clubs that based almost their entire business plans across this funding, they knew was ending in 2020.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote castleparknight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Dec 2021 at 08:54
Originally posted by dropout22 dropout22 wrote:

The drop is incredible, however it was slightly worrying the number of clubs that based almost their entire business plans across this funding, they knew (did they?) was ending in 2020.


Ending, according to the RFU not the Championship (who should surely have been informed of this), based on the non-existent KPI's that were allegedly in place. Whilst the RFU continues to pump millions into each Prem Club, clubs who continue in not developing English players but take the money. Even you know that this is just a ploy to ring fence the Prem through another avenue. But lets not go there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Dec 2021 at 09:57
It seems to me that the whole mess in the Championship was caused by the RFU publicly stating they wanted a full-time 2nd tier without providing realistic funding levels (40 players @ £40k = £1.6m)

It raised expectancy amongst players and in some clubs that full-time was possible (even if pay levels would be considerably lower than many at Premier Level)

It now seems the RFU have abandoned the dream of a full-time 2nd tier and are actively discouraging it by slashing the funding -were they expecting the teams to somehow obtain a sugar-daddy each to fund their dreams?

I totally agree, some teams seem to have relied on the £500k-£650k supplied by the RFU as their main source of income alongside match day income in some cases (e.g. Leeds being effectively bust but allowing to have one more season at Championship level -and of course an extra £500k).

With the Premiership salary cap reducing to £5m per season from next season one might hope the RFU funding to each team will be reduced - however the prospect of 14 teams will likely swallow up any savings.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Dec 2021 at 10:34
How much funding do you think the RFU should provide?
Enough for gold-plated taps in the Committee washroom, perhaps?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thatbloke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Dec 2021 at 11:55
Firstly I totally agree that there should be a salary cap AND that it should be totally transparent. What I do wonder is how many clubs are making "extra payments" through ghost companies set up by clever accountants. Can't believe its just been Sarries and now Leicester?
What doesn't make any sense at all is that the salary cap is the same for every club across the board, it should be linked to a %age of gross income, however that may be accrued. In footballing terms would you really try to impose the same salary cap to Man Utd (a global brand) as you would to Norwich City (no offence!)???
Why should a club generating millions have the same salary cap as a club generating perhaps a tenth of those figures?
Back to rugby - Leicester have always generated big crowds whilst the likes of Worcester and others get far fewer through the gates - so in my opinion it's farcical that they should have the same salary cap
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