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Level transfers from North to South
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Fudgepacker View Drop Down
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    Posted: 03 Apr 2020 at 16:02
From the final tables now published by the RFU it appears that two Northern clubs will need to be level transferred to make up the numbers in Nat 2 South. I believe Leicester Lions and Hinckley have the lowest additional mileage with Leicester exempt from being transferred for a second successive season unless they volunteer. Can anyone confirm whether my understanding is correct?
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Originally posted by Fudgepacker Fudgepacker wrote:

From the final tables now published by the RFU it appears that two Northern clubs will need to be level transferred to make up the numbers in Nat 2 South. I believe Leicester Lions and Hinckley have the lowest additional mileage with Leicester exempt from being transferred for a second successive season unless they volunteer. Can anyone confirm whether my understanding is correct?
I think you may be right but LL had a good season in 2S so unless they don't want to go I would suggest they may be happy there. 
Are you worried already?
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Originally posted by Friendly prop Friendly prop wrote:

Originally posted by Fudgepacker Fudgepacker wrote:

From the final tables now published by the RFU it appears that two Northern clubs will need to be level transferred to make up the numbers in Nat 2 South. I believe Leicester Lions and Hinckley have the lowest additional mileage with Leicester exempt from being transferred for a second successive season unless they volunteer. Can anyone confirm whether my understanding is correct?
I think you may be right but LL had a good season in 2S so unless they don't want to go I would suggest they may be happy there. 
Are you worried already?

Hi FP. Just reviewing our options and likely scenarios. Based on mileage we would be next to move after LL and Hinckley. I must confess our committee members would not be averse to spending a weekend or two in the SW and Guernsey! 
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Five teams coming into National 2 (North) (2 from above, 3 from below) and four leaving league (3 relegated, 1 promoted) so does that not mean there is only a requirement for one level transfer?
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Originally posted by tynelad tynelad wrote:

Five teams coming into National 2 (North) (2 from above, 3 from below) and four leaving league (3 relegated, 1 promoted) so does that not mean there is only a requirement for one level transfer?


No, it means 1 if Lions decide to stay South or 2 if they decide to return North.

I suspect the RFU are contacting the teams involved, particularly LL
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I dont believe Lions are exempt - I think that only applies if they go back to 2 North this year and play there, they couldnt be transferred again the year after. Might be wrong but having been through the RFU regs that is how we see it. Lions may want to stay anyway 


Edited by stato - 04 Apr 2020 at 11:43
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Just out of interest, what happens if all the Midlands clubs refuse to level transfer?
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Originally posted by sidelined sidelined wrote:

Just out of interest, what happens if all the Midlands clubs refuse to level transfer?
They can’t refuse!
Rucks and mauls may bust my balls, but whips and chains excite me!!
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Regulations are you have to move if told

Edited by stato - 04 Apr 2020 at 11:44
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Originally posted by sidelined sidelined wrote:

Just out of interest, what happens if all the Midlands clubs refuse to level transfer?

Then it goes down to mileage and the club with the lowest  gets forced into it, they have no choice. It happened to Towcestrians a few years ago in N3 when they were forced from Midlands to LSE and, from reading their programme, they were not happy about it!
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Originally posted by stato stato wrote:

I dont believe Lions are exempt - I think that only applies if they go back to 2 North this year and play there, they couldnt be transferred again the year after. Might be wrong but having been through the RFU regs that is how we see it. Lions may want to stay anyway as I think they have had a good experience. 

We have done the maths and expect it to be Lions and Hinckley. If you exclude Guernsey we have the mileage at 1784 for Hinckley and 1789 for Lions. Next is Bournville on 1851 but think that is outside the 2% which is when it goes to teams that finished higher. What is unknown to us is how they account for the Guernsey mileage or if they just take them out. 

Stato the key regulation is 13.2.11 (f) 'At the conclusion of the procedure described in 13.2.11(e) above, if a Club subject of a Level Transfer in the previous season(s) is returned to a league consistent with its Constituent Body or Divisional affiliation other than on promotion or relegation, that Club shall be entitled to remain in that League for two seasons provided it is not promoted or relegated at the end of the first season unless it volunteers for a Level Transfer.'

All clubs are automatically returned to their 'home' league at the conclusion of each season before the issue of level transfers is considered, so it applies to Leicester Lions. They have not been promoted or relegated. So they cannot be required to move again for two seasons unless they volunteer.
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Two things.......

Firstly........Fudgepacker.....your last post is correct.  I can confirm that (as we get a level transfer from the north most seasons) that so far, a team that has been level transferred has always elected to go straight back the next season, so it is always a different team that gets thrown to the wolves.
It MAY all change this year, as it is rumoured that Lions enjoyed their experience (very good pack, excellent defence) and might elect to stay south, where they would be welcome.  

Secondly, I saw the analysis above of 4 in and 5 out in Nat2N.  That however is NOT what determines level transfers each year by my understanding.  From what I can see,  simply put.....there are three clubs relegated from Nat2S which I ASSUME will be replaced as usual by three promoted sides, which maintains a status quo.  BUT.......two sides are promoted and only one comes down.  That leaves only 15 teams in Nat2S and only 14 if Lions elect to return.  This is the situation which generates the need for level transfer/s.
So there will be two 'northern' sides in Nat2S next season, the only question is who ?

If Lions stay, I think it would be Hinckley again unless another team volunteers.....by my understanding. 

In some ways, the level transfer mimics promotion to level 3 from a travel perspective.  A northern side would still need to travel south 10 times in Nat1 (last time I looked).  Ironically, Hinckley and Lions would still have two 'derby' games.    
pretty sure all that is right, but am happy to be corrected Wink
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Originally posted by Darth Raider Darth Raider wrote:


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Two things.......

Firstly........Fudgepacker.....your last post is correct.  I can confirm that (as we get a level transfer from the north most seasons) that so far, a team that has been level transferred has always elected to go straight back the next season, so it is always a different team that gets thrown to the wolves.
It MAY all change this year, as it is rumoured that Lions enjoyed their experience (very good pack, excellent defence) and might elect to stay south, where they would be welcome.  

Secondly, I saw the analysis above of 4 in and 5 out in Nat2N.  That however is NOT what determines level transfers each year by my understanding.  From what I can see,  simply put.....there are three clubs relegated from Nat2S which I ASSUME will be replaced as usual by three promoted sides, which maintains a status quo.  BUT.......two sides are promoted and only one comes down.  That leaves only 15 teams in Nat2S and only 14 if Lions elect to return.  This is the situation which generates the need for level transfer/s.
So there will be two 'northern' sides in Nat2S next season, the only question is who ?

If Lions stay, I think it would be Hinckley again unless another team volunteers.....by my understanding. 

In some ways, the level transfer mimics promotion to level 3 from a travel perspective.  A northern side would still need to travel south 10 times in Nat1 (last time I looked).  Ironically, Hinckley and Lions would still have two 'derby' games.    
pretty sure all that is right, but am happy to be corrected Wink


Agreed with all of that Darth.

Hopefully we will be able to have a beer or 3 at Rugby Pk in September
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Hi Steve......if I am at the Rugby Park in September I will for a change, be leaving my car at home. I will get there early and get absolutely slaughtered.  Just hope the outside bar does not run out of ale.  Will be so happy just to be alive and watching a good standard of rugby  Big smileBig smile.

COME ON RAIDERS  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Originally posted by Darth Raider Darth Raider wrote:

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Two things.......

Firstly........Fudgepacker.....your last post is correct.  I can confirm that (as we get a level transfer from the north most seasons) that so far, a team that has been level transferred has always elected to go straight back the next season, so it is always a different team that gets thrown to the wolves.
It MAY all change this year, as it is rumoured that Lions enjoyed their experience (very good pack, excellent defence) and might elect to stay south, where they would be welcome.  

Secondly, I saw the analysis above of 4 in and 5 out in Nat2N.  That however is NOT what determines level transfers each year by my understanding.  From what I can see,  simply put.....there are three clubs relegated from Nat2S which I ASSUME will be replaced as usual by three promoted sides, which maintains a status quo.  BUT.......two sides are promoted and only one comes down.  That leaves only 15 teams in Nat2S and only 14 if Lions elect to return.  This is the situation which generates the need for level transfer/s.
So there will be two 'northern' sides in Nat2S next season, the only question is who ?

If Lions stay, I think it would be Hinckley again unless another team volunteers.....by my understanding. 

In some ways, the level transfer mimics promotion to level 3 from a travel perspective.  A northern side would still need to travel south 10 times in Nat1 (last time I looked).  Ironically, Hinckley and Lions would still have two 'derby' games.    
pretty sure all that is right, but am happy to be corrected Wink

Thank you, Darth Raider. I agree 100%. 
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You are most welcome fudgepacker.......I hope that you and all the stakeholders in your club enjoy their (first ??) experience at level 4.  It is a huge challenge......a major step up.....best of luck to you....history would dictate you are much better off in Nat2N.  Volunteer to go south at your peril TongueWink
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Originally posted by Darth Raider Darth Raider wrote:

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You are most welcome fudgepacker.......I hope that you and all the stakeholders in your club enjoy their (first ??) experience at level 4.  It is a huge challenge......a major step up.....best of luck to you....history would dictate you are much better off in Nat2N.  Volunteer to go south at your peril TongueWink

Thank you Darth Raider. It is indeed our first experience at level 4 in the club's 111 year history. Our fate is really in the hands of Leicester Lions and whether they decide to volunteer to stay another season in Nat2S. If not, then I don't think we will have any choice in the matter. Either way, we are determined to enjoy the experience and make new friends as we visit many of the clubs for the first time ever. And the prospect of weekends in Cornwall and Guernsey will certainly keep our dedicated band of alickadoos happy!
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I'm surprised Stourbridge doesn't fit in the equation they sit south and west of Leicestershire.
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Originally posted by tigerburnie tigerburnie wrote:

I'm surprised Stourbridge doesn't fit in the equation they sit south and west of Leicestershire.

Based on the RFU mileage criteria, Stourbridge are 4th in line to move after Hinckley, Leicester Lions and Bournville. They are not within the 2% margin of any of those other clubs and are effectively safe from a non-voluntary transfer. 
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So in short

If lions decide to come back north  = 
Hinckley & Bournville go

If lions stay south = 
Lions & Hinckley go

Lions get the option to stay or come back as they were forced to go last year ..... after first season they can choose to come back or stay. 

That's why they went this time, as Hinckley  went last time so they had the choice and stayed .... now roles reversed.

Correct ?????
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