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Steve@Mose View Drop Down
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    Posted: 15 May 2023 at 19:57
London Irish: Premiership club given 30 May sale deadline or risk suspension

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London Irish have been given a deadline of 30 May to complete their takeover or risk being suspended from the Premiership next season.

The Rugby Football Union has set the deadline for the deal to be approved.

The club otherwise has to show evidence it has the financial means to continue through the 2023-24 season.

Owner Mick Crossan is in protracted talks to sell the Exiles, with an American consortium in negotiations to buy the club.

...

The RFU said the timescale had been set to "avoid a scenario where the club enters insolvency mid-season, with the corresponding and substantial impact that has on players, staff and fans, as well as on the remainder of the league".

"This deadline was set to give enough time for the buyers to provide the information needed and for the transaction to complete," the RFU statement continued.
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KnightsBoy View Drop Down
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Just what does suspended mean?

Suspension from the prem season 23/24

Dropped to the Championship 


Edited by KnightsBoy - 15 May 2023 at 20:31
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cheshire exile View Drop Down
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Who knows the secret of the Black Magic box??
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Where a Club is placed in special measures that Club’s most senior first XV team, as determined by the RFU, will be immediately suspended from all RFU leagues and competitions. The RFU can temporarily lift the suspension upon application by the Club where the RFU is satisfied that the Club has in place a binding agreement to pay all Rugby Creditors who are contractually owed monies or other sums from the Club.

The RFU can permanently lift the suspension upon application by the Club where the RFU is satisfied that all the Club’s Rugby Creditors have been paid any outstanding monies or other sums contractually due to them in full. Where a Club does not agree to pay its Rugby Creditors, or having so agreed fails to do so, the RFU shall be entitled to redistribute any RFU Benefits for that suspended Club to either (a) the remaining clubs in that League; and/or (b) any unpaid Rugby Creditors as the RFU decides in its absolute discretion.
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Points: 6258 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2023 at 08:27
Originally posted by cheshire exile cheshire exile wrote:

Who knows the secret of the Black Magic box??
It's more a box of fudge.
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Deva Delinquent View Drop Down
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Points: 1858 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Deva Delinquent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2023 at 08:29
Are there going to be any teams in the Premiership next year?
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Is this isolated to rugby or are other sports teams going bankrupt at the same rate? Are player wages the main issue? I've never understood how you can have a salary cap of 5 million  and yet gates of less than 8000 (for most clubs). Its not even close to sustainable. How has it been hidden for so many years?
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Camquin View Drop Down
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Points: 11161 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2023 at 09:23
If only they kept to a cap of £5m, most clubs are spending closer to £10m and total expenditure of about £20m.

Some of that is funded by getting £10m from PRL for TV and commercial rights - it would be more, but they sold their birthright for a mess of pottage, and CVC takes 20%.

They also get £2m from the RFU for the academy and releasing internationals.

And they seem to make about £3 to £5m from sponsors and match day income.

And about £3m from their sugar daddy, often as loans.
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Points: 562 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2023 at 09:38
Camping,
Do you know what competition incomes are like?

Sarries and Sale are in the final so presumably they earn more than Bristol or Gloucester.
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Camquin View Drop Down
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Points: 11161 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2023 at 10:16
Only what is in public accounts I have found, which can be obscure.
I am not sure how much more you get for being in a final, or how much more you pay in win bonuses.
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Points: 6532 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2023 at 10:34
Originally posted by rugbychris rugbychris wrote:

Is this isolated to rugby or are other sports teams going bankrupt at the same rate? Are player wages the main issue? I've never understood how you can have a salary cap of 5 million  and yet gates of less than 8000 (for most clubs). Its not even close to sustainable. How has it been hidden for so many years?

Most professional sports have examples of financial issues and clubs struggling even the behemoth of football. Most clubs survive on the generosity of their backers rather than live within their means and at the top levels of football there always seems to be an investor willing to lose millions chasing the dream but lower down the leagues we have lost Bury and Macclesfield in recent seasons and Chester, Rushden and Diamonds, Maidstone and Aldershot in the recent past.  The list of Non-League clubs is probably a lot longer. If you listen to the highly recommended Price of Football podcast you will hear regularly of other EFL clubs who are teetering on the edge.  

Yorkshire Cricket are in a financial mess and probably aren't the only county. 

Rugby League clubs have constantly struggled - and may become worse when their reorganisation kicks in.  

What is marking Rugby Union out at the moment is it is the top clubs who are struggling and there are no signs of generous backers wanting to come in and takeover the ailing clubs. 

The clubs have spaffed the CVC investment and will be in a worse financial state in the future.  There are signs the next RFU/Premiership will be less generous or come with stronger strings (although if there are less Premierships splitting less money, will there be a noticeable difference?)

Covid should have led to a reset but it hasn't. The next chance of a reset is the next RFU/PRL deal - it should be an opportunity for financial common sense to kick in but I just don't see it happening as clubs are chasing the European dream and trying to compete with a French structure which is far more stable and richer because the game receives more from TV because French football is far less dominant than it is over here. 
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Deva Delinquent View Drop Down
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Points: 1858 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Deva Delinquent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2023 at 11:30
Financial mis-management in English football is a well trodden path, so it's regrettable that rugby union hasn't learnt the lessons of so many clubs that no longer exist or had to re-start as a phoenix.

Speaking as someone who spent much of his youth following Chester City, and lower league football in general, there are lots of parallels with what is happening at the highest level of rugby union right now.  Teams chasing the dream, paying silly money to players in the hope of winning promotion, spending more than they generate - it gets most clubs in the end.  Wealthy benefactors get bored, the money dries up and the team goes into freefall.

Chester are the other example and they are joined by dozens of others; bought by successive shysters, mis-managed, asset-stripped and ultimately left to die.  These people do not care and it's us, the fans, that are left disappointed and to pick up the pieces.  Chester are now fan owned and have their destiny in their own hands, and yet there are some that would throw all that away to jump into bed with someone else willing to splash the cash to chase the dream - it's not sustainable, but that pull of what-could-be never goes away.

I don't know what the answer is for rugby, but you can see the crash coming a mile off.  Wasps & Worcester are the latest and won't be the last to get burned.
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Points: 562 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2023 at 12:48
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

Only what is in public accounts I have found, which can be obscure.
I am not sure how much more you get for being in a final, or how much more you pay in win bonuses.

Thanks Cam.that will make up a good chunk.

I used to work in F1 and the incomes were as you described plus championship incomes.
Basically the same in every sport with different levels of sugar Daddy.
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The financial problems in rugby are bound to increase going forward as player safety requires fewer matches. The Championship soccer team I have followed since I was a four year old season ticket holder in the boys end at Roker Park has 23 home league matches a season plus cup games and regularly gets crowds of 40K. The Championship Rugby team I follow has half that number of home games and despite having an above average season on the pitch is lucky if it attracts crowds of a couple of thousand. I've not checked the entry fee on the gate recently but I bet they pay more to see a soccer match. TV companies pay to show what people want to see so they naturally pay more for soccer. Playing squads are bigger in rugby although there is a huge gulf of difference between player's income. If rugby is to thrive it desperately needs a viable business model where costs are controlled to sustainable levels. imo rugby should start by scrapping the crazy minimum ground standards which seek to impose massive capital investment which the game cannot afford upon ambitious clubs which have no commercial need for it. 
Dont kick it. Pick it up and GO FORWARD.
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Points: 3311 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote greenpower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2023 at 17:44
didnt  know you were a sunderland fan cc  me too big  game for them tonight
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Points: 1829 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CJB1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2023 at 18:31
Originally posted by greenpower greenpower wrote:

didnt  know you were a sunderland fan cc  me too big  game for them tonight
Me too.  Fingers crossed.
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Points: 6258 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2023 at 22:48
Howay the Hatters.
Lol.
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Points: 4724 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote corporalcarrot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2023 at 07:14
Originally posted by Kimbo Kimbo wrote:

Howay the Hatters.
Lol.
Groan the lads could have done with a couple of Jersey forwards - they were totally out-muscled on the night. Howay the lads - next year pleease.
Dont kick it. Pick it up and GO FORWARD.
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To get back to the topic (rather than a totally different sport) - it appears that Irish have been given a tight deadline to complete the take over.

It seems even at Premiership level there are one set of rules for some and a totally different set for others
RAID ON
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Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

To get back to the topic (rather than a totally different sport) - it appears that Irish have been given a tight deadline to complete the take over.

It seems even at Premiership level there are one set of rules for some and a totally different set for others

Charitably (I know...) I think it sort of makes sense. When Wasps and Worcester hit the skids after the season had started (never mind how long they had been skidding before that) and it hasn't happened for a while, the sport has got a - narrow - interest in accepting the assurances that it will all sort itself out, and giving longer for that to happen, because the ramifications of sides disappearing during the season are so serious for the staff/players of those clubs, and for the finances of everyone else. 

When a side hits the skids in the off-season, however, it does probably make more sense to force a quick conclusion because that gives players time to get around the other clubs while plans are being finalised, and before it damages a league that has already started.

From a sport administrators pov, you want potential collapses over and done with quicker in the closed season, and through gritted teeth have more interest in trying to spin them out during the season.

The lesson there is if you're a benevolent but failing team owner, try and make sure the wheels come off during the season...




Edited by billesleyexile - 17 May 2023 at 11:40
keep the faith
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