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Clubs' Statement on Pro Game Agreement |
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Kimbo ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 31 May 2007 Location: 'incleh Status: Offline Points: 6370 |
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KnightsBoy ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() ![]() Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Location: Doncaster Status: Offline Points: 2786 |
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What does the removal from the professional game structure mean?
Relegation too Nat 1? Or lower?
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Kimbo ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 31 May 2007 Location: 'incleh Status: Offline Points: 6370 |
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No idea.
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SK 88 ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 08 Sep 2011 Location: Leicester Status: Offline Points: 588 |
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Not sure, but I am presuming it means "Prem 2" if it happens will be a new division inserted above. Practically it would mean losing the ability to sponsor player and staff employment visas and no money from the RFU at all.
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TAS63 ![]() British and Irish Lion ![]() Joined: 13 Apr 2009 Location: Bourne Status: Offline Points: 178 |
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Disappointingly, it has always felt like it would end in a position similar to this. I have seen / read nothing from the RFU proposals that doesn't look to maintain the "status quo" for the Premiership clubs and nothing to properly resolve the structure between the Premiership and the rest of the game.
Regardless of their words, they seem to really be after a professional Premiership and an amateur rest of the game and nothing in the middle. Seriously lacks any ambition from the RFU and protects their own self interests. Doesn't really feel like we have moved on since the days of the infamous Will Carling quote.
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Big Eddie ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() ![]() Joined: 19 Jun 2007 Status: Offline Points: 5043 |
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The RFU Council have been relegated to lickspittle lackeys by an omnipotent executive led by King Billy. The game as most of us know it is finished.
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''The future isn't what it used to be''
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Sid James ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() ![]() Joined: 28 Jun 2013 Location: East Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 1660 |
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BE,
The game is not finished, it is thriving quite nicely in the National Leagues and below. The Championship Clubs need to face reality. The RFU are not interested in the Championship and the sooner you all realise that and join the National leagues the better. For too long now the Championship Clubs have relied on ever decreasing RFU subsidies in order to maintain squads that are simply too large and see a lot of good rugby players not getting a game on a Saturday. Championship Clubs have tried to 'keep up with the Jones'' and found out that it is simply not sustainable. The answer is for the Championship to become the top league in the National Leagues and stop all of this moaning about promotion and relegation to the Premiership. It is pointless. Why would you want to be promoted to the Premiership. None of the Championship Clubs would survive one season in the Premiership. It would be embarrassing for them and their supporters. We need to cut the Premiership adrift, wait for the Clubs to go bankrupt as they try to keep up with the French and, watch it implode from afar. If the National Leagues were expanded to take in Championship Clubs and, all of the Regional Leagues, think of the power that the National Leagues would have. We could tell Twickers where to shove it!
Edited by Sid James - 04 Jun 2024 at 09:37 |
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All Knwoing All Seeing
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FlyingRuck ![]() First XV regular ![]() ![]() Joined: 03 Mar 2020 Location: Sidcup Status: Offline Points: 103 |
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Completely agree with Sid James.
Edited by FlyingRuck - 04 Jun 2024 at 10:22 |
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See you further on up the road
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FHLH ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Cambridge Joined: 19 Apr 2009 Location: Cambridge Status: Offline Points: 5320 |
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![]() ![]() ![]() I suspect this situation is only of real interest to Tiers 2 & 3 and is exactly what the RFU and Premiership clubs want, but is the pragmatic solution. The main issue in this scenario is any financial commitments made by Championship clubs to meet infrastructure needs of Championship rugby such as toilets, parking, changing rooms and spectator seating. National Leagues are 56 clubs, Championship 11. Create a 4 th Regional league of 14 clubs with promotion / relegation into National 1 of 4 clubs would make it spicy. There would need to be an adjustment down the leagues to bring National 1 to 14 clubs. Edited by FHLH - 04 Jun 2024 at 10:49 |
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"My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts."
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maire23 ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Apr 2019 Location: Nottingham Status: Offline Points: 345 |
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The main issue in this scenario is any financial commitments made by Championship clubs to meet infrastructure needs of Championship rugby such as toilets, parking, changing rooms and spectator seating. Agreed- not just the financial aspects of those things too, there is also the practical- from the point of view of a disabled supporter, if certain aspects of Championship infrastructure disappeared upon joining the National Leagues it would be impossible for me, and I’m sure others in my position, to watch a game. I cannot stand for 80 minutes + and need access to a toilet. I do have a wheelchair which would obviously guarantee me a seat but trying to get to away games on my own as I usually do- especially in London, would be prohibitively difficult. (I have taken my wheelchair to Lady Bay on several occasions without issue, mostly because the access is good and my husband can drop me off and pick me up in the car)
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SK 88 ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 08 Sep 2011 Location: Leicester Status: Offline Points: 588 |
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The Championship clubs say £4m is not enough, a very reasonable position. But how much would be enough? Are they asking for £10m (also reasonable in my view) or £25m (not reasonable in my view)?
£10m p.a. and direct promotion/relegation with acceptable minimum standards (5k capacity, outline planning permission for 10k, and evidence of work towards 10k without a hard cut off deadline would be mine) are definitely things worth pushing for. Asking for £20m p.a. and wanting to play in a muddy field with limited minimum standards isn't. I'd like to see this April Council paper mentioned by the RFU to know if I should be pushing my club to support it or oppose it.
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FHLH ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Cambridge Joined: 19 Apr 2009 Location: Cambridge Status: Offline Points: 5320 |
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Disabled facilities need to be addressed - my disabled parking space is sometimes redesignated and blue badge parking moved further away - but it is there. The RFU offer to the Championship clubs is not all cash. I do wonder how Championship clubs would feel if atop slice was taken for National League clubs facilities grants!
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"My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts."
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WILD BOAR 1 ![]() First XV squad ![]() Joined: 26 Dec 2023 Location: GLOUCESTER Status: Offline Points: 33 |
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Agree with Sid & FHLH.
Edited by WILD BOAR 1 - 04 Jun 2024 at 11:05 |
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Camquin ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() ![]() Joined: 01 Jun 2007 Location: Cambridge Status: Offline Points: 11249 |
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On the council: It is modernisation, don't you know. On funding: the current funding just about pays for having an ambulance on site during the game. What it does not do is provide any money for development - or to run a professional squad. In the past, clubs did rely on the RFU funding to pay for a squad, but I am looking at Esher, Sedgley Park, Newbury, Otley and Manchester. The sides that were relegated in 2009. Edited by Camquin - 04 Jun 2024 at 11:59 |
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Sweeney Delenda Est
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WEvans ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 08 Dec 2016 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 1435 |
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"What does the removal from the professional game structure mean?"
Probably when the dust settles massive relief. Leave the Premiership clubs to march onwards to join Wasps, Irish and Worcester in oblivion aided and abetted by the morally bankrupt RFU and hopefully join an expanded, sustainable semi-pro National League run by people with some integrity. I rarely disagree with Big Eddie but I do here. Rugby is alive and well at National League and below despite the best efforts of the RFU.
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Paul10 ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 24 Mar 2023 Location: Milton Keynes Status: Offline Points: 678 |
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I don't know what value in kind can be between a Champ/Prem 2 club and the rfu?
In F1 value in kind meant IBM puts their logo on the car and F1 team provides 30 top grade tickets at the Monaco GP. But between the RFU and the clubs. What is it?
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Dalesman 1 ![]() Mini and Juniors ![]() Joined: 10 May 2023 Location: Rochdale Status: Offline Points: 1 |
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Speaking from the level 6 (grassroots) rugby clubs, many of us do not have a wages problem as we are totally amateur and have no wish to enter that category. It is hard enough funding our excellent facilities ourselves (no money from the RFU enters our system). We have players with us from 6-7 years old who are then tempted away at Colts level to those who do pay. Some play at level 4 and 5, but some progress right upto the Premiership. We wish them well as they leave and only ask they come back sometime and help us out. That is our ethos. It would be nice though if our club could hold their registration and ask for some compensation from those paying clubs, for our efforts of 10 years providing facilities and guidance, training and welfare. That would be a much fairer system.
I'm in total agreement that the Premiership clubs be cut free to enter the race to oblivion, and then the RFU would be able to provide some funds for everyone else.
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BFG1 ![]() British and Irish Lion ![]() Joined: 20 Jul 2007 Status: Offline Points: 298 |
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Sid James
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Halliford ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 Feb 2010 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4193 |
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The RFU point out that 85% of their income is from England matches at Twickenham so they need access to those players. Sadly, they lost control in 1997 by not contracting centrally then.
The top-slicing of Tier 2 funds is to pay for central marketing. The RFU are prepared to pay to promote Tier 2 but does not want to fund playing squads (even though they do that at Premiership). The standards they issued are mostly sensible, although they do require Clubs to have a Stand (Caldy and Ampthill have a problem). The National Leagues are themselves discussing minimum standards to improve spectator experience, based on the views expressed by many that our rugby is better live viewing than Tier 1. I agree with the idea of Tier 2 joining NLR, it has been suggested, but one stumbling block is that Tier 2 want their own Governing body, like PRL, and the RFU doesn’t want that. 14th June is getting close but don’t rely on the RFU Council, too many of them have no proper link to Club rugby.
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Camquin ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() ![]() Joined: 01 Jun 2007 Location: Cambridge Status: Offline Points: 11249 |
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Most of the Championship clubs were once level 6 clubs once, so feel your pain. And they are still volunteer run clubs, it is just the committee's get to worry about bigger bills. And it is the Premiership clubs poaching our players. |
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Sweeney Delenda Est
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