Reset the game

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/apr/09/shutdown-gives-rugby-union-an-unmissable-opportunity-to-reset?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

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Topic: Reset the game
Posted: 09 Apr 2020 at 17:35

Shutdown gives rugby union an unmissable opportunity to reset

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Posted: 10 Apr 2020 at 09:39

Don't disagree with any of that but to be honest I'm far keener to see a complete reset of the club game at levels 3 (maybe even 2) and below. The top flight will always carry on in one form or another.

It's just absurd that local clubs (and that's what most Nat 1 and 2 clubs are), mostly run by volunteers and playing in front of what are really tiny crowds, are paying average players ridiculous amounts of money which they don't have. Many players at levels 3 and 4 are being paid more for training 2 nights a week and a game on Saturday than care workers and Health Care Assistants in hospitals - all doing full time and what are now dangerous jobs. That's just absurd and cannot carry on.

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Posted: 10 Apr 2020 at 10:05

French Connection wrote:

Many players at levels 3 and 4 are being paid more for training 2 nights a week and a game on Saturday than care workers and Health Care Assistants in hospitals - all doing full time and what are now dangerous jobs.

Seriously? Given what we know of the salaries being paid in the Championship, I really don't think so...

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Posted: 10 Apr 2020 at 11:50

French Connection wrote:

Don't disagree with any of that but to be honest I'm far keener to see a complete reset of the club game at levels 3 (maybe even 2) and below. The top flight will always carry on in one form or another.

I'm fairly certain that players, who are used to being paid, are not going to suddenly play for nothing.

Any attempt by clubs to stop paying players will end up with more Birmingham &Solihull, South Leicester, East Grinstead etc - unless all clubs agree to do so and stick to it (which I seriously doubt)

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Posted: 10 Apr 2020 at 13:56

Mark W-J wrote:

Seriously? Given what we know of the salaries being paid in the Championship, I really don't think so...

Do you know how little Health Care Assistants in hospitals and workers in care homes are paid? I can also guarantee that many players at levels 3 and 4 are making as much or more. Not opinion - 100% certain.

Regarding the Championship - there has always been a real problem there in that it is full of Premiership Academy rejects who play there for almost nothing, still chasing the dream and hoping that they'll get picked up again. Many would get the same or more in Nat 1, and if they got a job as well they'd have 2 or 3 times as much money in total. That was the advice that i gave many of them, and some followed it.

Also, I am not suggesting at all that players are not paid at all - far from it. However what I am saying is that it's essential that clubs go back to living within their means.....and players too. If you're playing in front of 100 people a week you can't really claim to deserve a great deal of money - yet many get exactly that as rich blokes use clubs as a means to boost their own egos.

A complete reset needed - of society as a whole and not just rugby to be honest.

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Posted: 10 Apr 2020 at 14:20

I'm not entirely sure how the game can be reset without a full, sensible, review from the top down. This would have to include the work of the RFU. As well as league structure, payment of players, etc.

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Posted: 10 Apr 2020 at 14:33

Raider999 wrote:

I'm fairly certain that players, who are used to being paid, are not going to suddenly play for nothing.

Any attempt by clubs to stop paying players will end up with more Birmingham &Solihull, South Leicester, East Grinstead etc - unless all clubs agree to do so and stick to it (which I seriously doubt)

I think for some players there wont be a choice. Some clubs were teetering on the edge before the current events, which will only push them further off the cliff edge.

For them to survive as a club they will stop paying and may end up doing a B&S etc, that is more preferable than doing a Wakefield.

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Posted: 12 Apr 2020 at 10:43

Spot on Richard - the Prem sides are already hurting badly and dont appear to have an answer.

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Posted: 12 Apr 2020 at 11:54

Bigmal wrote:

Spot on Richard - the Prem sides are already hurting badly and dont appear to have an answer.

But where has all the money from the Venture Capitalists gone?

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Posted: 12 Apr 2020 at 12:55

I believe they mainly used it to pay off debt.

However, CVC are not a charity.

They want their money back.

I doubt they will be foregoing their share of the dividends.

So unless they have sold new rights- the clubs income will be down going forward.

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https://amp.theguardian.com/sport/2020/apr/14/richmond-may-be-sustainable-model-for-the-future-of-championship-rugby

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Posted: 15 Apr 2020 at 07:28

I think club players at all levels need to get their heads around the fact that there isn't the money in the game. Dream big by all means, and as a young player aspire to play at the elite level, but accept that the journey is not paved in gold and from the start of this 2020/21 season going forward the financial model that clubs should be following at Championshop level will be based on Richmond's. And players in the levels below that may have to forfeit any significant payment or at least accept substantial cuts to match fees. Go back to playing for the love of the game.... I know.... "You're having a laugh...!"

Flawed article in the Grun but the general gist is correct... the model of backers putting money in but it all going to pay players and clubs posting huge losses at end of year as far as their bottom line is concerned has to end

Edited by Dobber - 15 Apr 2020 at 11:07

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Posted: 15 Apr 2020 at 10:40

Camquin wrote:

I believe they mainly used it to pay off debt.

However, CVC are not a charity.

They want their money back.

I doubt they will be foregoing their share of the dividends.

So unless they have sold new rights- the clubs income will be down going forward.

It would have been interesting to sit in on the discussions between the Premiership clubs and CVC.

Did the Premiership clubs stop listening once CVC promised £Xmillions? Did they understand what they had to give up in return? For me it is was short term gain and long term pain.

Had they researched the outcome of CVC deal with F1?

Did CVC understand rugby and its structure is totally different to F1?

It is hard for the Premiership clubs and CVC to grow the game to the extent they believe they will. TV rights, sponsorship rights (it was a declining market before the current crisis - look at the 6N sponsorship Huckleberry up and then the farce around the Champions cup sponsorship - run by the Premiership clubs and thier European friends!), marketing and spectators are the four sources of income, and to limit wages is the sole source of outgoings.

I hope the 6N were better prepared. That is a better souce of return for CVC but it comes with all the same peril for the 6N.

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Posted: 15 Apr 2020 at 16:45

Maybe salary cap at level 2 of say £100K per player?

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Posted: 15 Apr 2020 at 18:06

isleonian wrote:

Maybe salary cap at level 2 of say £100K per player?

I cannot believe that any club at level 2 could afford £100k on a player with the obvious exception of Saracens and Trailfinders

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Posted: 15 Apr 2020 at 18:14

Woops, £10K?

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Posted: 15 Apr 2020 at 18:16

isleonian wrote:

Woops, £10K?

I would like to see a team budget of say £1m to £1.5m set for the Championship - to include all playing staff without exception for player coaches.

Bearing in mind the drop in RFU funding I would have thought this would be acceptable to all teams.

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Posted: 15 Apr 2020 at 18:52

There's no easy fix, especially if you set rules and then some sugar daddy starts giving out Hush Hush brown envelopes.Certainly from level 3 there should be a max per player down to expenses at L6.

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Posted: 15 Apr 2020 at 19:41

I think you'd be surprised at the wide range of salaries in the Championship

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Posted: 15 Apr 2020 at 19:45

Should a salary cap be a fixed amount or an amount of club turnover?

Discuss...

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