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All Is Not Well Upstairs.
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Abbotsman View Drop Down
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    Posted: 29 Mar 2023 at 15:05
Seems like Newcastle might want to join us. Interesting that they have dropped season ticket prices significantly

Also London Irish confirm this months wages will be paid.
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Brizzer View Drop Down
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Ealing could get their wish and be promoted into the PL making it a league of 1.

Edited by Brizzer - 29 Mar 2023 at 15:53
Tackle Low!!!!!
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Points: 11444 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2023 at 17:03
Nobody has addressed the fact that it costs nearly £20m to be a competitive Premiership side, and central funding and sponsorship only bring in about £10m, and the best organised clubs are making about £5m from tickets, shirt sponsors etc. leaving a large shortfall for the owners.

Some clubs make some money from the value of the land, but I am not sure if that is viable everywhere or forever.
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Points: 1456 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WEvans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2023 at 17:55
Originally posted by Abbotsman Abbotsman wrote:

Seems like Newcastle might want to join us. Interesting that they have dropped season ticket prices significantly

Also London Irish confirm this months wages will be paid.


Whereas Quins have taken the opposite route to Newcastle and increased season ticket prices dramatically. It does rather seem they are in danger of killing the goose that lays the golden egg although they claim they have a ST waiting list of two and a half thousand. 

The Quins message board is not at all happy particularly with the reduction in Premiership games and with Quins taking two of their ten home Premiership games across the road which is not popular with many.

With a league currently down to eleven and some strong suggestions that more will have fallen by the wayside by the time the season starts (a season in which clubs are likely to see even less of their international players due to the World Cup) it's an "interesting" move by Quins.  
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Points: 3688 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W-J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2023 at 18:39
Newcastle issued a statement saying that these rumours were completely false, but the journalists chose to run the story anyway. Poor Smithy has been venting on Twitter all day. To be fair, I don't blame him. If they say it isn't true and all the paper does is print a story saying 'Newcastle deny they're in financial difficulties' it doesn't really help anyone.
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Points: 3398 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brizzer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2023 at 19:20
Like a bad apple, the gutter press really make good, honest journalism a nightmare. It is instances like these that they can do what they want by quoting ‘a source’ and hide behind anonymity. If these are absolute lies, then there should be recourse for The Falcons…. But of course there won’t be.
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Abbotsman View Drop Down
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Points: 62 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Abbotsman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 2023 at 07:39
For clarity the season ticket price drop is on the back of an earlier survey, to help fans with the cost of living and has a wide range of benefits. (source: Falcons website). A generous offer by the club and would be appreciated by supporters at a lot of other clubs too I imagine. 



Edited by Abbotsman - 30 Mar 2023 at 07:40
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Points: 527 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kempstonblue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 2023 at 07:47
What a mess.
The older I get, the more the RFU leave me confused.
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Points: 11444 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2023 at 08:37
And as night follows day, London Irish were correct, they had money for last month's wages, but the Times are saying no new money has arrived and this month's wages have not been paid.

If you subscribe, the article is here:
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Points: 3800 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tigerburnie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2023 at 09:22
The Times wrote:London Irish are at risk of following Worcester Warriors and Wasps into financial meltdown after players and staff failed to receive their salaries for the month of April.

The American consortium involved in takeover talks with the Gallagher Premiership club informed all employees in a meeting on Friday that their money would not be paid on time.

A follow-up email was sent on Sunday with assurances that confirmation of payment would be received by Monday evening in the UK, once the banks in the United States had opened for business.

But it was an empty promise. The Times understands that no payments were made overnight, raising an all-too familiar red flag for stressed employees.

London Irish, who have £30 million of debt, are the third Premiership club this season to find themselves in this situation. Worcester and Wasps both went bust before Christmas and dropped out of the Premiership.

Worcester’s players and staff faced months of broken promises over unpaid salaries and potential takeovers before the club collapsed. They are all still out of pocket and some have found employment hard to come by.

The new owners of Worcester have refused to revive the club in the Championship because that would require them to pay back all rugby creditors, which would cost up to £8 million.

Wasps are due to return in the Championship next season, having passed the RFU’s initial criteria, but the club are understood to have major funding issues. They have no coaches, no players and no home ground.

London Irish do not have the tax office chasing them, which is ultimately what triggered the collapse of Worcester and Wasps, but they are deemed to be at “high risk” because of their debt and low annual turnover.

Although the club has a training facility that has been used by NFL teams and international rugby teams, London Irish does not own a stadium that can be used to generate non-matchday income.

There were fears last month that London Irish would be unable to pay their players but the American consortium covered the March payroll, but it has failed to do so this time.

London Irish refused to comment over the weekend. A spokesperson for the consortium deflected questions back to the club, even though the players and staff were addressed by a representative of the American investors on Friday. They were told that a deal is close.

Premiership Rugby and the RFU have been approached for comment.

The financial crisis across the league has deepened in recent years. According to a parliamentary investigation, Premiership clubs each lose, on average, £4 million a year. Premiership Rugby failed to secure an uplift on its broadcasting deal with BT Sport. Every club is now saddled with government debt of between £10-15 million after taking out loans to stay afloat during the pandemic.

Premiership Rugby is working to relaunch the league in 2024 as a ten-team competition, removing clashes with Test matches to ensure the England players are available more often.

Promotion and relegation is due to return at the end of next season, via a play-off between the bottom side in the Premiership and the Championship winners, but that is now highly unlikely to happen.

There is an acceptance around the Premiership that something radical needs to change if the league is to attract more investment and avoid sinking further into the financial abyss.
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Points: 105 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fly Half Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2023 at 09:36
Wow, a fair but frightening summary, particularly with a few months of no income over the summer. Throw in Newcastle and it could be nine clubs!
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Points: 349 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote *Stalwart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2023 at 09:51
Why is relegation/promotion now unlikely? It is the jeopardy and drama of relegation and promotion which will create interest from TV companies, not a stagnant league as we have presently.
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Points: 3800 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tigerburnie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2023 at 12:00
Why do people keep throwing Newcastle into this? They have cut their staff to manageable levels to run a team they can afford to according to information passed my way, they're possibly one of the few clubs that are close to paying their way. There are several others relying on a very small group of people for their liquidity who are just as likely to hit a wall as Falcons are.
Facts are businesses, big ones far bigger than our rugby clubs are struggling, major banks being examples. Money is not flowing around like it was pre covid. sponsors will be finding money tight and you will see folk cutting their own spending. Non essentials like, pubs, meals out and watching sport will be  the first to be cut from spending budgets. For some times are tough and I see no political leadership to lift the pessimism either and with a war still raging on and new ones starting, it ain't going to sports clubs we will be worrying about.
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Points: 464 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Neasham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2023 at 12:21
Usual South v North  snobbery. They’re in the north so
A) they must be poor
B) We don’t want to travel too far outside the M25
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Points: 6605 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2023 at 12:41
Originally posted by Neasham Neasham wrote:

Usual South v North  snobbery. They’re in the north so
A) they must be poor
B) We don’t want to travel too far outside the M25

I don't think it is either. 

I think simply it is the fact that Newcastle are cutting their cloth accordingly - which is either accepted as prudent financial management or the start of a slippery slope. 

The constant rumours about voluntary relegation - strictly denied by the club - or other approaches which could see them bought out/kicked out - again strictly rumours - keep them in the media gaze. 

None of the Premiership clubs are standing on a rock like Gibraltar - I see that even Bristol's owner could be looking at selling. 
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Camquin View Drop Down
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Points: 11444 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2023 at 12:48
At the moment the Premiership clubs are reliant on £12m a year in TV, central sponsorship and RFU money.

If they were relegated, they should lose all of that, and possibly more - as shirt sponsorship and ground advertising is now worth less.

No company could survive losing 75% of their revenue - especially when they are already spending 125% of it - and most of that is long term commitments.

Especially when mortgaged to the hilt.


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Points: 464 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Neasham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2023 at 13:37
Originally posted by Richard Lowther Richard Lowther wrote:

Originally posted by Neasham Neasham wrote:

Usual South v North  snobbery. They’re in the north so
A) they must be poor
B) We don’t want to travel too far outside the M25

I don't think it is either. 

I think simply it is the fact that Newcastle are cutting their cloth accordingly - which is either accepted as prudent financial management or the start of a slippery slope. 

The constant rumours about voluntary relegation - strictly denied by the club - or other approaches which could see them bought out/kicked out - again strictly rumours - keep them in the media gaze. 

None of the Premiership clubs are standing on a rock like Gibraltar - I see that even Bristol's owner could be looking at selling. 

Anyone with an agenda can start a rumour. Falcons are indeed showing signs of prudence and have a new head coach on board for next season who, presumably, is happy with the club’s prospects. 
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Points: 349 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maire23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2023 at 23:41
I read an interesting POV on Twitter. 
It essentially blames the signing of a certain fly half for Irish’s financial woes.
While that was some time ago granted and so wasn’t necessarily the complete catalyst causing financial meltdown, I don’t believe that the loss of such a high profile sponsor as Diageo plus other sponsors had zero impact on Irish’s finances. It likely definitely didn’t help matters. There’s been rumours afloat of Irish’s precarious financial position for some time so who knows. 
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Points: 3800 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tigerburnie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2023 at 09:47
Home games for those clubs with a decent crowd and not paying rent are earning a decent amount, when Worcester went it was reported that Gloucester were seeking around £600k for lost revenue for the one game.
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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2023/05/03/london-irish-players-fear-april-wages-not-until-end-may/

Telegraph suggesting the meeting today (Weds) was to inform them the money isn’t going to materialise till later in the month - horrid news for staff and players - worrying signs for the Irish fans.
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