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tigerburnie ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 10 Jun 2012 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 3725 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 13 Nov 2023 at 15:47 |
ChrisJonesPress
“Steve Diamond has joined the RFU Prem 2 working group in an advisory capacity. Diamond has previously produced a road map for possibly turning the Championship into Prem 2 ” |
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Mark W-J ![]() Coaching staff ![]() ![]() Joined: 22 May 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3661 |
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And he has a vested interest in fast-tracking at least one of the 'fallen giants' back into the second tier.
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tigerburnie ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 10 Jun 2012 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 3725 |
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Unless he's joined with London Irish, I doubt it, the administrators won't let him anywhere near Worcester.
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SK 88 ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 08 Sep 2011 Location: Leicester Status: Offline Points: 588 |
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It's nothing to do with the administrators now.
Christopher Holland owns the long lease on the stadium & the IP. He owes the administrators money but that is a separate thing as far as I can work out. If Diamond's group bought those rights off Holland (say for the settlement of the amount owed to the administrator) it would be up to them/the RFU to negotiate the return of a team to Sixways.
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WEvans ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 08 Dec 2016 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 1456 |
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Exactly. The administrators have accepted a bid and if the money is paid then whoever is involved has absolutely nothing to do with them.
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tigerburnie ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 10 Jun 2012 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 3725 |
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Were the administrators doing their job to get paid by the best candidate for the creditors, they would be talking to anyone, not sat on their @rse taking their cut and not really caring about anyone.
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Greg ![]() First XV regular ![]() Joined: 30 Jan 2020 Location: Norfolk Status: Offline Points: 110 |
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Why does the appointment of Steve Diamond not fill me with joy?
Increasingly I am drawn to the conclusion that Prem 2 (if it ever comes to be) will be open to franchises rather than those clubs who currently merit a place through their position in the Championship.
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tigerburnie ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 10 Jun 2012 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 3725 |
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The original talk was of three franchises in Brum, Kent and Portsmouth areas, can't see any of them ever getting off the ground, indeed I cannot see where Wasps, Worcester(both seemingly owned by the same bloke) or Irish are going to find investors. Wasps had a ground and a team and couldn't find an investor, ditto Irish, sort of gives you an idea of the mountain that requires climbing.
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Camquin ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() ![]() Joined: 01 Jun 2007 Location: Cambridge Status: Offline Points: 11254 |
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I suspect, the well-heeled Championship clubs will apply and some might be accepted after detailed scrutiny I am sure Wasps and Worcester would try to apply, and while I am not sure that they are capable of making a sustainable bid, but they might not get the same scrutiny. My guess is that they will solicit bids from clubs from other codes, to run a RU side. Theoretically, if you have the facilities, running a second team should be profitable, as you sweat your assets. But somehow, it does not seem to work. Leeds and Quins both had cross code set-ups, and neither really worked. A fully professional rugby side is some 40 players, plus say five coaches and three medics, even if you borrow S&C staff from the parent, so you are not going to have much change from £3m just for wages and NI contributions. Operational costs would be on top of that. So you are either going to need TV money, significant sponsorship, a sugar daddy or some combination of the three. It does not sound like an obvious investment to me.
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Sweeney Delenda Est
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WEvans ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 08 Dec 2016 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 1456 |
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Now let's see. The Premiership is a basket case with every club reliant on a sugar-daddy of some form or another to survive. So now they are looking at forming Premiership 2. Bound to be a winner isn't it?
The sooner the whole lot implodes the better for English rugby and if Premiership 2 is going to cause it then bring it on!
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Richard Lowther ![]() Coaching staff ![]() ![]() Moderator Joined: 19 May 2007 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 6573 |
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Has anyone yet explained what benefits a Premier 2 would bring to the whole game rather than just enrich another set of clubs to the detriment of the majority?
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tigerburnie ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 10 Jun 2012 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 3725 |
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You have no wish for a competitive National team then?
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SK 88 ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 08 Sep 2011 Location: Leicester Status: Offline Points: 588 |
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I doubt they will do that to be honest, I cannot think of it working successfully, anywhere. Think your costs are if anything conservative. Regarding value investment: Were the deal to be permanent ring fencing of the professional game, similar to the Football league in the 1890s for instance, the position within the league would have an inherent value and lots of private venture sports leagues are attractive stores of value for wealthy people. From an obvious perspective if you are mega wealthy sports clubs are decent dodges from inheritance tax, particularly at the level of value we're theoretically talking about here. Contrary to popular narrative Rugby union has seen consistent growth of income, and rugby union is a popular spectator sport with a track record of building fan bases in the last 25 years. Where the popular narrative is correct is that it has struggled to control its costs. What we're not privy to is the whole detail in this proposal which might give new owners reason to be optimistic.
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Camquin ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() ![]() Joined: 01 Jun 2007 Location: Cambridge Status: Offline Points: 11254 |
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When did we last have one of those?
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Sweeney Delenda Est
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tigerburnie ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 10 Jun 2012 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 3725 |
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One could say in their last two games, beat Argentina to be third in the World and lost by a point to the current World Champions, but I wouldn't.
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kempstonblue ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() ![]() Joined: 20 Jun 2020 Location: Kempston Status: Offline Points: 522 |
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How many well heeled clubs are in the Championship?
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The older I get, the more the RFU leave me confused.
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Camquin ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() ![]() Joined: 01 Jun 2007 Location: Cambridge Status: Offline Points: 11254 |
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Ealing, Probably Doncaster, who do appear to have a stadium suitable for the Premiership. I would have said Jersey, but they were apparently spending more than they earned. Possibly Pirates, Coventry, and Bedford who at least have grounds with large stands and fans to fill them. Which, is why I think they need to find franchises to fill the league.
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Sweeney Delenda Est
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Raider999 ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 18 Jan 2013 Location: Crawley Status: Online Points: 4455 |
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Spending more than you earn is endemic in most rugby clubs. At professional level the wage bill is way above the income, thus clubs need a sugar daddy to fund the largesse. Edited by Raider999 - 15 Nov 2023 at 19:21 |
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RAID ON
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Greg ![]() First XV regular ![]() Joined: 30 Jan 2020 Location: Norfolk Status: Offline Points: 110 |
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How about getting the Premiership back up to 12 'professional' teams and making everything below them part of the 'amatuer' National leagues. Probably simpler and certainly more sustainable.
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islander ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 17 Mar 2010 Location: jersey Status: Offline Points: 7503 |
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I'd question whether it's realistic to have an entirely pro top tier and then entirely amateur tiers below that. Where will players be developed? Academy game and university sides would I guess be the answer, but the Championship, for all its flaws, has done that role ok... and presumably setting up this '12 pro, the rest amateur' structure would involve an admission that there'd be no up/down movement, as the significant gulf that currently exists would become an unbridgeable chasm? Richmond and other p/t, largely amateur, sides have managed to cut it in the Champ in recent years, but in today's currency you'd be expecting sides to move from equivalent of 3rd tier to top tier = totally unrealistic IMHO
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