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Racism in Rugby - Event Date: 21 Oct 2022 |
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tulip ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 12 Mar 2012 Location: W Yorks Status: Offline Points: 2206 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 21 Oct 2022 at 07:53 |
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This is a topic I really got annoyed with when Luther Burrell said "Racism is rife in Rugby Union"
I've been manager of Junior teams at Sandal for many years and we have had many different ethnic young lads play for us .Probably against Huddersfield when Burrell was playing there. But there was never in probably my 10 years tenure any racism whatsoever My son played 12 years in 1st team and never any racism Why would he say that Rugby Union is racis t Edited by tulip - 21 Oct 2022 at 08:04 |
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Richard Lowther ![]() Coaching staff ![]() ![]() Moderator Joined: 19 May 2007 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 6573 |
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He has obviously experienced it that's why he is saying it exists. |
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Kimbo ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 31 May 2007 Location: 'incleh Status: Offline Points: 6370 |
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There's racism in every walk of life. It's insidious, and ingrained, to the extent that often offenders don't even realise. To think it doesn't exist in RU would be naive in the extreme.
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OldNick ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 20 May 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3414 |
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I have certainly witnessed racism from supporters, both of my own club (Coventry), and of their opponents. It has varied between one-off comments shouted at players, to a group of visiting supporters making monkey hootimg noises at a player whenever he came near their touchline. I have reported them and in at least two cases I know they were investigated and action taken.
It seems more prevalent with certain clubs, and there are many where I have nrvet seen it, but to say it does not exist is denying what is clearly there. I can also remember being at a match where one incident between players where after an unpleasant assault on pitch which resulted in police involvement two players made 'mistaken' witness statements implicating an innocent coloured player - the only one in their opponents team. Police charges against him were dropped when the guilty party owned up.
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tulip ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 12 Mar 2012 Location: W Yorks Status: Offline Points: 2206 |
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Edited by tulip - 21 Oct 2022 at 12:20 |
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Sid James ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() ![]() Joined: 28 Jun 2013 Location: East Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 1660 |
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I agree Richard but this is one man's experience. Are we all guilty, no. Is this any reason for a major enquiry, no. I watch our MJ section on a Sunday morning , which regularly involves a couple of hundred players, parents and coaches and, I have never witnessed any gathering of that size that is more inclusive.
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All Knwoing All Seeing
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Camquin ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() ![]() Joined: 01 Jun 2007 Location: Cambridge Status: Offline Points: 11249 |
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The inquiry may well find that there are only isolated pockets. But, we would still need to deal with those. I think the worst we can do is not to look.
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Sweeney Delenda Est
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Richard Lowther ![]() Coaching staff ![]() ![]() Moderator Joined: 19 May 2007 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 6573 |
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What you are prepared to accept as 'banter' from your mates is your concern but to try and equate it to unwanted cloudberry language /behaviour received by others is simply wrong.
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Richard Lowther ![]() Coaching staff ![]() ![]() Moderator Joined: 19 May 2007 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 6573 |
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I disagree. At what level should we have an enquiry then? What is the acceptable number of people racially abused before we do something about it? The answer is one and that is one too many. Just because you haven't experienced it doesn't take away the fact it happens. Just be lucky it hasn't happened to you but have empathy with those who have been abused and the affect it has on them. Racism is simply unacceptable and I can't believe I am having to make that point.
Edited by Richard Lowther - 21 Oct 2022 at 13:35 |
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tulip ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 12 Mar 2012 Location: W Yorks Status: Offline Points: 2206 |
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The point I and Sid were trying to make Richard was that Burrell's accusation that Racism is rife in rugby union is wrong. He probably has been called something and I hope he names names. Put up or shut up
Have I been racially abused by being called an Irish Pilloc k No friendly banter among mates
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Richard Lowther ![]() Coaching staff ![]() ![]() Moderator Joined: 19 May 2007 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 6573 |
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You totally miss the point. Yours and Sid's insistence that there is no racism is not evidence that it doesn't exist. That is why there is an enquiry to determine the scale of such unacceptable behaviour. How did you feel when you were abused? Was it acceptable, did it make you feel uncomfortable, were you in fear of violence etc. Because that is what it does to people and no one should be condoning such behaviour.
Edited by Richard Lowther - 21 Oct 2022 at 14:02 |
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tulip ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 12 Mar 2012 Location: W Yorks Status: Offline Points: 2206 |
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I haven't missed the point Richard. I have said that in my experience I have not experienced racism in rugby and that I didn't think it was RIFE
I'm sure it has happened and it needs looking into. But I don't think it is rife
Edited by tulip - 21 Oct 2022 at 14:11 |
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OldNick ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 20 May 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3414 |
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Your experience is irrelevant.
The experience of a player who has been racially abused is not.
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Richard Lowther ![]() Coaching staff ![]() ![]() Moderator Joined: 19 May 2007 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 6573 |
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You have missed the point. The enquiry will determine if it is or isn't rife and will do so based more than on your observations. Edited by Richard Lowther - 21 Oct 2022 at 14:24 |
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tulip ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 12 Mar 2012 Location: W Yorks Status: Offline Points: 2206 |
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You have missed the point. The enquiry will determine if it is or isn't rife and will do so based more than on your observations. Edited by tulip - 21 Oct 2022 at 14:29 |
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WEvans ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 08 Dec 2016 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 1456 |
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Reading this thread it's interesting how some posters switch between taking individual experiences as representative of rugby as a whole and then doing the opposite when it suits their argument.
Hopefully the enquiry will provide more consistent and logical analysis.
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No 7 ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() ![]() Joined: 10 Oct 2011 Location: LONDON Status: Offline Points: 1872 |
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I do not accept that it is rife in Rugby. Unless he is referring to crowds. I have played and been involved in Rugby for 42 years having started playing aged 12 at an inner London comprehensive on the the ironically named White City estate' Shepherds Bush. I can not recall one incident at school. We have a social media group and I will ask if anyone experienced racism in Rugby. I am sure that there were incidents but not directly associated with Rugby.
In my experience at school , schoolboy County Rugby, County colts divisional and England colts I never heard of or witnessed any form of racism. In adult Rugby I had only two clubs , Hammersmith & Fulham ( formed by my school mates , Bhomdat Marajah, Roy Evans, Terry Alleyne , Andrew Whiteman all who are not white ! These guys formed a thriving Rugby club and are all still heavily involved in the running of that club. My second club , Ealing had at one time 11 adult teams and were the most diverse mix of people from all backgrounds and skin colour. No one.......No one cared what colour your skin was, where you came from , what school you went to. I have coached youth Rugby for 22 years and qualified by the RFU to be a divisional selector . I have never witnessed any racism. My conclusion is it is not rife but I does happen and is unacceptable .
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Ambition should be made of sterner stuff.
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tulip ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 12 Mar 2012 Location: W Yorks Status: Offline Points: 2206 |
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Rabbie Burns ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() ![]() Joined: 18 Jul 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3332 |
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It’s all about the terms, because times have changed. Language used when I was younger is no longer acceptable you only need to look at TV to see the changing issues, Benny Hill, Steptoe, Alf Garnet all massive audience pullers back in the day but now derided on the altar of political correctness. Is there racism in rugby definitely how bad is it who knows and we probably never will can another quango determine it definitely not as even now most people do not realise what they say in banter another sees it as offensive
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So many Christians not enough Lions
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Sid James ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() ![]() Joined: 28 Jun 2013 Location: East Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 1660 |
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I never insisted that there is no racism in rugby and I never said I had not witnessed racism in rugby. What I was trying to say is that my Club and, I would assume many Clubs nationally, are doing a very good job at stamping out racism at its roots. We do not need the RFU, or anyone else, telling us how we should behave or how we should deal with incidents of racism. I was also trying to get over that we do not need an expensive enquiry to tell us what we already know i.e. the further you look back the more examples of racism you will find. Times, and feelings of what is morally acceptable, have changed. That's why 'Love thy Neighbour' isn't shown on TV today. Would we be having this enquiry if some unknown Club 3rd team player had highlighted the issue. No. We are moving on and the Clubs are taking the lead on this.
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All Knwoing All Seeing
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