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Premiership II plans announced
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    Posted: 21 Dec 2023 at 18:57
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/67772805

So who do we think will apply to join Premiership II? Sweeney says they want a league of 14 teams. 

Apparently in order to be telegenic enough to join, you have to have a stand, which might be problematic for some aspirant clubs.

Of course, some of those they have mentioned e.g. Wasps, London Irish or Jersey, currently don't have a team or a ground, let alone a stand. 

And Steve Diamond says that as long as those clubs have paid off their rugby creditors, they ought to be allowed to step straight back in to the exciting Premiership II. Which would make interesting reading for DCMS and the Treasury given how much in unpaid Covid loans those clubs owe. 
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This if it goes through as is, it will see me severe all ties with professional rugby in the Premiership 1 or 2, stinks if these failed clubs can walk back in without clearing their debts, Wasps in particular, have they given those supporters who bought those bonds money back?
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And of course, Mr Sweeney says that a prerequisite of joining is that they must have a genuine desire to be promoted to the Premiership. 

Honestly, you couldn't make this stuff up.
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Has anything detailed been published, or is it all secret?

The only way I can see of finding 14 entities capable of meeting the minimum ground criteria by 2026 is if Association Football Clubs put in proposals, along with Doncaster and possibly Worcester.

One of those Soccer clubs could use London Irish name, possibly Wasps - if they give up their mad ideas of a ground in Kent.
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With Prem squads being cut and internationals paid a lump from the RFU it must mean that a lot of funding will go to Prem 2! LOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOL
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I really hope that the Championship clubs stick together and fight this tooth and nail. There is still no clarity on ground criteria. Even if it's a bit less, initially, for a place in Prem 2, there has to be an ambition to be promoted. If they stick to their minimum 5,000 with the ability to expand to 10,000 most of the Championship clubs will be excluded.
Wasps and Worcester have no ground, no players and owe a shed load of money to a lot of people. Jersey went bust with huge debts and have no way of expanding their ground to meet Prem standards. Letting them back into Prem 2 would be a travesty.
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It sends a message to every asset stripper in the world, come in rope a club and walk away scot free and if you want you can do it again, or in the case some again and again and again.

Edited by tigerburnie - 21 Dec 2023 at 21:38
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I would like to ask just how can the Rugby community stop this? Its only effects a few clubs (current level 2 sides plus 3 or 4 from level 3). My own level 7 club has no ambition to progress, indeed the thought of promotion fills most of the members with dread. Having said that the concept of promotion and relegation, with the ability of any club given time, backing and a following wind, to progress to the top level. How do we stop this change?
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It does mention promotion and relegation so I would presume there would be relegation from Prem 2? Ultimately need the detailed report.
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Originally posted by Breakdown Breakdown wrote:

And of course, Mr Sweeney says that a prerequisite of joining is that they must have a genuine desire to be promoted to the Premiership. 

Honestly, you couldn't make this stuff up.



Every Championship club has that desire. It's just the Premiership Cartel and their protectionist Minimum Standards Criteria kills that desire. I mean, does he seriously think clubs don't play in the leagues to reach the highest level they can?

The man is deluded.
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I think it's that Diamond quote that says it all about why this is being done. "....why would you not want those brands in your league?"

Its clear this whole idea is another farce just to get the old boy's club back together the easiest way possible rather than forcing dead clubs to start at the bottom and earn their way back up as London Welsh are doing.  

Just like during covid year when Sarries were forced down. Shorten the season, require expensive testing and require a 2-legged playoff for promotion to stack the deck strongly in favour of the cartel club.


Edited by Robb - 21 Dec 2023 at 22:32
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To be fair to him, when Richmond went up in 2016/17 - and it was only after a vote by the playing members that they decided to do so - they said unequivocally that they did not want to be promoted above that level. Once bitten and all that. 

As it turned out, it was a bit of an academic point. 
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Originally posted by *Stalwart *Stalwart wrote:

I really hope that the Championship clubs stick together and fight this tooth and nail. There is still no clarity on ground criteria. Even if it's a bit less, initially, for a place in Prem 2, there has to be an ambition to be promoted. If they stick to their minimum 5,000 with the ability to expand to 10,000 most of the Championship clubs will be excluded.

Currently, as far as I can tell, only Bedford, Coventry, Doncaster and Ealing qualify on capacity grounds (not that that means owt) so they'll definitely have to cast their net wider than the Champ!
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Originally posted by Breakdown Breakdown wrote:

....... and Steve Diamond says that as long as those clubs have paid off their rugby creditors, they ought to be allowed to step straight back in to the exciting Premiership II. Which would make interesting reading for DCMS and the Treasury given how much in unpaid Covid loans those clubs owe. 

Insolvency law

How can a club legally pay rugby creditors but not the small businesses who are owed money?

Future funding 

What's the split between P1 and P2 funding? Presumably equal if there is to be a truly level playing field Confused

As has been said, no one knows the latter until the report is published in full. This may happen when the new (unaffordable) future funding arrangements are announced. 

The former leaves a bad taste in my mouth. 

Levels 3+ look great -  affordable, Mini / Youth set up & volunteer led. 




Edited by FHLH - 22 Dec 2023 at 02:22
"My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts."
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“We have poured money into the Championship “;  I must have missed that.
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Originally posted by Kimbo Kimbo wrote:

Originally posted by *Stalwart *Stalwart wrote:

I really hope that the Championship clubs stick together and fight this tooth and nail. There is still no clarity on ground criteria. Even if it's a bit less, initially, for a place in Prem 2, there has to be an ambition to be promoted. If they stick to their minimum 5,000 with the ability to expand to 10,000 most of the Championship clubs will be excluded.

Currently, as far as I can tell, only Bedford, Coventry, Doncaster and Ealing qualify on capacity grounds (not that that means owt) so they'll definitely have to cast their net wider than the Champ!


So they want Darlington MP

Bill Sweeney, the RFU chief executive, added: ‘We’d love to see more clubs in the north; a better geographical spread.

‘If Darlington Mowden Park came to us and said, “Here’s our investor plan, here’s our commercial credibility and we’re accessing X amount of players from around the country, this is our playing squad”, we’d look at that as a proper expression of interest.’
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Originally posted by The Blues The Blues wrote:

Originally posted by Kimbo Kimbo wrote:

Originally posted by *Stalwart *Stalwart wrote:

I really hope that the Championship clubs stick together and fight this tooth and nail. There is still no clarity on ground criteria. Even if it's a bit less, initially, for a place in Prem 2, there has to be an ambition to be promoted. If they stick to their minimum 5,000 with the ability to expand to 10,000 most of the Championship clubs will be excluded.

Currently, as far as I can tell, only Bedford, Coventry, Doncaster and Ealing qualify on capacity grounds (not that that means owt) so they'll definitely have to cast their net wider than the Champ!


So they want Darlington MP

Bill Sweeney, the RFU chief executive, added: ‘We’d love to see more clubs in the north; a better geographical spread.

‘If Darlington Mowden Park came to us and said, “Here’s our investor plan, here’s our commercial credibility and we’re accessing X amount of players from around the country, this is our playing squad”, we’d look at that as a proper expression of interest.’

Yes, I'd heard whispers about Mowden some time ago. Maybe bit of desperation on the union's part in an attempt to fill the gap somewhat between Doncaster and Newcastle, but who knows if the appetite is there?
(I won't be opening the Daily Heil link, no than kew).
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From what I have read so far teams like Caldy and Ampthill look to be screwed.....so fighting your way up the pyramid from level7/8 to attaining a place in the Championship on pure rugby ability will count for nothing and the RFU will parachute in teams that either went bust or who haven't been able to get there on merit.......to be honest this stinks 

The RFU will probably offer Caldy's slot to either Sale FC, Fylde or possibly Chester RFC

If they do I won't be going to any Prem 2 games or Prem 1 games that is for sure

I find it to be one of the biggest sporting injustices ever!


Edited by Big Eddie - 22 Dec 2023 at 09:43
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The three wise men don't seem to be interested in rugby, just money, you will have to pay and have investors to play in the prems 1 and 2, so that will count Wasps out, there's unlikely to be a mad man with any money go any where near that failed brand.

Edited by tigerburnie - 22 Dec 2023 at 09:47
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Sweeney to one of the papers: "“We’ve shown that if you pour money into the existing structure of the Championship, it just doesn’t deliver. That’s not being disrespectful, it just doesn’t.”

Pour money in? Great Scott, they have dribbled money in and now expect others to take the place of the "non-delivering" Championship whose supporters have invested tens if not hundreds of millions into the league since it was set up. What an insult. Surely time for the game to stop letting these people get away with their arrogance and disingenuous propaganda?
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