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Worcester & Wasps
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Bigbluepip View Drop Down
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    Posted: 30 Oct 2022 at 15:30
Can anyone explain what’s happening with these next season? 

As I see it, Worcester will be in our league, not sure why as teams previously going into admin got booted so far down they had to get changed in car parks before the game (ahhhh..... the good old days). 

As for Wasps, I have no idea, have they ceased to exist, if a buyer has been found, where will they be next year.

I’d ask someone in the RFU, but I think I have more idea of what’s happening than they do Wink. 

I appreciate the picture is still very fuzzy, but does anyone know, or is it all still conjecture.
I want you all to line up in a circle and pair up in three's alphabetically by height.
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Camquin View Drop Down
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Points: 11444 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 2022 at 15:53
They are in limbo.
If a phoenix club can be formed, then they are permitted to take up a place in the Championship.
If not, the professional teams cease to exist.

A phoenix club must pay rugby creditors within 28 days of being granted a licence to play in a league.
It must have the rights to use the usual home ground of the insolvent club for at least three years.
The RFU will require a bond and may also require personal financial guarantees from the directors.

This is all in Appendix 2 or regulation 5.

But this is the RFU, we know they will bend the rules. SO expect Wasps to be permitted to play at Twyford Avenue.

Obviously, the old plan was for a 14 team Premiership, so if we are naive we should expect three sides to be promoted from the Championship.

But now everyone is talking about plans for a 10 team Premiership - which apparently have been in place so several months.

We have no idea how many sides will play in the Championship, do I hear 10, 12,14 16?
Or what funding would be in place. 
Wasps and Worcester will be hoping for more than £150k.

If the Premiership does reduce to 10, the relegated side would presumably retain their P-shares for a season. Worcester's and Wasps' shares, however, should be sold to PRL Investors Ltd, and the funds used to repay some of their debts.

So we do not know if any Championship clubs might be relegated, or if any Nat 1 club would be promoted..
 
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Points: 3418 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OldNick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 2022 at 15:56
No. No one can.

Unless of course they are mystic meg.

The RFU has issued very clear statements as to what would happen if nothing changes. If things change they will issue new statements.

We should have some idea in about 4-5 months.
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Points: 349 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote *Stalwart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 2022 at 15:59
As usual the Championship is treated with complete contempt by the powers that be. 4-5 months is probably optimistic Old Nick - probably more likely sometime in the summer!
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Points: 721 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigbluepip Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 2022 at 16:15
Thanks Camquin, I’ll just take the view that with the RFU involved and their magic 8 ball 🎱 will be repeatedly consulted, all outcomes are still possible. LOL
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Camquin View Drop Down
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Points: 11444 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 2022 at 16:29
In another part of the forest.


Worcester's administrators Begbies Traynor have chosen former Warriors chief executive Jim O'Toole's consortium as their preferred bidders for the relegated Premiership club.
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Bigbluepip View Drop Down
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Points: 721 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigbluepip Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 2022 at 18:23
Looks like we’ll have both in the Championship next season.


So, if 2 come down, that’ll make the end of season “Is anyone going up/coming up/everyone as you were” discussion” interesting.



Edited by Bigbluepip - 30 Oct 2022 at 18:27
I want you all to line up in a circle and pair up in three's alphabetically by height.
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islander View Drop Down
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Lots of talk about 2 x 10-team divisions, but next season - really? As things stand, with Wuss + Wasps looking like they may be able to start next season in Champ, the 2 x 10 format would involve some form of cull of 5 level 2 teams in just 6 months' time - that would be pretty drastic.

The recent (Oct 17th) update [ LINK ] from HQ said planning for next season involved a Championship from 12-14 teams.

Does anyone expect there to be more than 12 teams in the Prem next season? I'd be very surprised if there were. And 10 would be quite drastic too, involving at least one of current 11 being relegated, or two if a Champ club was allowed up.

And I guess it can't be guaranteed that the number of Prem casualties won't rise above two.

A lot more Qs than As at this point, that's for sure...
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Points: 6605 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 2022 at 20:59
I don't think we will see any major changes to the Premiership or the Championship* until the existing Premiership deal runs out in 2024.  This gives time for everyone concerned to work out a format that is financially affordable. 

* bar next season going from 12 to 14 teams to include Worcester and Wasps. 
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Camquin View Drop Down
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Points: 11444 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2022 at 09:19
I think we will see a reborn Worcester at Sixways, though I think it will take the administrator a while to sort everything out.
However, the Worcester fans over on ComeOnYouWarriors are worried it is all about the property and not enough about the rugby side, They would have preferred the Steve Diamond bid.

And over on Huckleberryly PearenWasps there is a large, anywhere but Coventry, group.
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Points: 7607 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote islander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2022 at 09:33
Originally posted by Richard Lowther Richard Lowther wrote:

I don't think we will see any major changes to the Premiership or the Championship* until the existing Premiership deal runs out in 2024.  This gives time for everyone concerned to work out a format that is financially affordable. 

* bar next season going from 12 to 14 teams to include Worcester and Wasps. 

So - just checking how this could play out - to current 12 in Champ, you add Wuss + Wasps to get 14? But also a promoted team from Nat 1 to make 15? But then 'lose' a promoted club to Prem (if they meet criteria), giving Prem 12, if no-one comes down, and Champ 14?
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Originally posted by islander islander wrote:

Originally posted by Richard Lowther Richard Lowther wrote:

I don't think we will see any major changes to the Premiership or the Championship* until the existing Premiership deal runs out in 2024.  This gives time for everyone concerned to work out a format that is financially affordable. 

* bar next season going from 12 to 14 teams to include Worcester and Wasps. 

So - just checking how this could play out - to current 12 in Champ, you add Wuss + Wasps to get 14? But also a promoted team from Nat 1 to make 15? But then 'lose' a promoted club to Prem (if they meet criteria), giving Prem 12, if no-one comes down, and Champ 14?

I think that's how most people expect it to work out.  But a worst case scenario - the winners of the Champ find out in April that they have been refused entry to the Prem, and suddenly you're looking at two teams relegated, with the consequential knock-on effect all the way down the pyramid.
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Camquin View Drop Down
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There is talk of reducing the Premiership to 10,
So that would have three teams coming down Worcester, Wasps and one more, possibly Newcastle.

The options would be a 10 team Championship with a joint cup, with funding coming from three sets of P calls and a new sponsor and TV deal, all divided equally  - but I think that unlikely.

It would also mean 5 down, possibly with Nat 1 expanded to 16. So six down three  up below it.

So probably a 14 team Championship.
Unfortunately, that would mean no promotion this season - unless London Scottish do go North, in which case there might be scope for one up from National 1.

Or 16 with Scottish reprieved and one up from National One.
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Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

There is talk of reducing the Premiership to 10,
So that would have three teams coming down Worcester, Wasps and one more, possibly Newcastle.

The options would be a 10 team Championship with a joint cup, with funding coming from three sets of P calls and a new sponsor and TV deal, all divided equally  - but I think that unlikely.

It would also mean 5 down, possibly with Nat 1 expanded to 16. So six down three  up below it.

So probably a 14 team Championship.
Unfortunately, that would mean no promotion this season - unless London Scottish do go North, in which case there might be scope for one up from National 1.

Or 16 with Scottish reprieved and one up from National One.


We know there's talk of Prem reduction CQ, but would that happen by next summer? I tend to agree with Richard L - that the tinkering with league sizes in top 2 tiers won't be drastic this side of 2024.


Edited by islander - 31 Oct 2022 at 10:00
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With the CBS Arena almost certainly going into administration, where I ask will Wasps play next season in the Championship, has anyone any thoughts on that ?
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Ground shade with Cov at the Butts.
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Camquin View Drop Down
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To be a phoenix entity, they need to use the usual ground of the club that went into administration.
This is there to prevent someone from buying a bankrupt club and starting up somewhere else.
If they cannot acquire the lease, they have no right to a place in the Championship.

And the money men want the arena, despite what Steve Diamond said, that sort of investment is all about the property deals.
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Points: 6605 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2022 at 15:13
Originally posted by Cov kid 42 Cov kid 42 wrote:

With the CBS Arena almost certainly going into administration, where I ask will Wasps play next season in the Championship, has anyone any thoughts on that ?

I jokingly suggested Alexander Stadium on the other thread. 

I can see strings being pulled to allow them to play back in their 'spiritual' home of London - but Twycross Avenue, home of Wasps FC wouldn't meet the Premiership criteria, so they would be looking for a ground share with a football club who did.  Now how could such a plan go wrong?....
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PiffPaff View Drop Down
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Maybe a merger with Ealing? ......Ealing Wasps? Kills two birds with one stone and is 3.5 miles from Wasps original home.
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10 team Championship 
Currently we get 11 home league fixtures and 3 cup matches.

Under a 10 teams structure , 9 home league fixtures and a reformatted cup competition.

I don’t get it
The older I get, the more the RFU leave me confused.
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