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Dual registration players

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Baggins View Drop Down
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    Posted: 04 Apr 2023 at 09:58
I was reading the thread about the Prem/Champ cup next year and the discussion turned to what will happen to dual registered players next season.

But which clubs are heavily invested in DR players now and which aren't?

I know LS often have some surprisingly good Quins playing for them, Lynagh last week, and Bedford have a clutch of Saints on the books; Hartpury are basically a subsidiary of Glaws aren't they?

I doubt Jersey or Ealing have any at all as they are entirely professional

But the others I am less sure about I suppose they may have a couple, like Caldy do from Sale.

Ampthill used to have a few Saracens for a few years but this seems to have largely stopped now although they obviously do still have strong links there as Kelly Brown has apparently been coming down since Christmas to training, which may go some way to explaining their massive turnaround. But they seem to rely on many swoops on players who haven't been gobbled up by the Prem teams or Welsh regions like Morgan Strong and Gwen Parks. So in that case they are largely dependant on Paul Turner's little black book.

For the others I have no idea.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Eddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 2023 at 10:39
Caldy have used 4 Sale Sharks dual reg players this season. Elliot Gourlay who may no longer be with Sale Sharks has played virtually all of Caldy's games both this season and last season. Nye Thomas, Ethan Caine and Ruben Birch have probably played 3 or 4 games each this season with Caldy's match day squad normally only having Elliot and one other Sale Shark involved, with this second Sale Shark normally featuring from the bench.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KnightsBoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 2023 at 10:48
Doncaster have 2 short term loanees from Glasgow as injury cover
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheshire exile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 2023 at 13:33
Pirates have seen 4 or 5 D/R/s from Exeter at various stages this season, notably Tommy Wyatt who featured for Chiefs against Montpelier last weekend. They haven’t been available when Chiefs had Premiership Cup commitments, a tournament they won.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 2023 at 15:43
I think Cov have dispensed with the DR nonsense, but have had a few loans in to cover, mainly, front row long term injuries.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Eddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 2023 at 15:52
Originally posted by Kimbo Kimbo wrote:

I think Cov have dispensed with the DR nonsense, but have had a few loans in to cover, mainly, front row long term injuries.

To be honest in my mind they are essentially the same thing
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote islander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 2023 at 17:01
Originally posted by Baggins Baggins wrote:


I doubt Jersey or Ealing have any at all as they are entirely professional


You've made an incorrect assumption here B - clubs can be fully professional and still have d/r players - Reds have 3 on season-long loan from Briz (2) & Glaws (1)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote corporalcarrot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 2023 at 17:19
Originally posted by islander islander wrote:

Originally posted by Baggins Baggins wrote:


I doubt Jersey or Ealing have any at all as they are entirely professional


You've made an incorrect assumption here B - clubs can be fully professional and still have d/r players - Reds have 3 on season-long loan from Briz (2) & Glaws (1)
Almost 4 but this lad from Falcons was needed more at home base and was never available:

Edited by corporalcarrot - 04 Apr 2023 at 17:20
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WEvans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 2023 at 18:01
Originally posted by Baggins Baggins wrote:

....

I know LS often have some surprisingly good Quins playing for them, Lynagh last week, and Bedford have a clutch of Saints on the books; Hartpury are basically a subsidiary of Glaws aren't they?

....

According to my (I'm sure incomplete) records LS have used 31 dual registered players this season mostly but not entirely from Quins.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote corporalcarrot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 2023 at 18:31
The season long loans seem to be widely used by most clubs and appear to work well for all sides. I believe Callum Sheedy joined Jersey on that basis from Briz a few years ago and got loads of game time before rejoining Briz and going on to international status. I think there are limits on the practice and seem to remember Pury fielding about half the match day squad at one point but presumably someone monitors this and clubs work within the rules.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rabbie Burns Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 2023 at 19:15
If I am correct there are no rules for this in the Champ
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Monkey Magic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 2023 at 23:22
Originally posted by WEvans WEvans wrote:

Originally posted by Baggins Baggins wrote:

....

I know LS often have some surprisingly good Quins playing for them, Lynagh last week, and Bedford have a clutch of Saints on the books; Hartpury are basically a subsidiary of Glaws aren't they?

....

According to my (I'm sure incomplete) records LS have used 31 dual registered players this season mostly but not entirely from Quins.


Really??? Hug of the mark! Think you must be double counting but never let the truth get in the way of a good story................



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2023 at 10:03
Originally posted by Big Eddie Big Eddie wrote:

Originally posted by Kimbo Kimbo wrote:

I think Cov have dispensed with the DR nonsense, but have had a few loans in to cover, mainly, front row long term injuries.

To be honest in my mind they are essentially the same thing
I understand what you're saying, but they are two different things with differing regulations.
I don't like either, but sometimes needs must.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baggins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2023 at 10:48
Originally posted by islander islander wrote:

Originally posted by Baggins Baggins wrote:


I doubt Jersey or Ealing have any at all as they are entirely professional


You've made an incorrect assumption here B - clubs can be fully professional and still have d/r players - Reds have 3 on season-long loan from Briz (2) & Glaws (1)

I assumed that they had enough money to dispense with the problems that unpredictable availability leads to. Are season long loans a different matter in that, baring injury crises, they will always be available?

Some clubs seem to have moved away from this model to bring stability but if you arrange a long term loan that gives you the best of both worlds, good young players and stability
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baggins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2023 at 10:50
Originally posted by WEvans WEvans wrote:

Originally posted by Baggins Baggins wrote:

....

I know LS often have some surprisingly good Quins playing for them, Lynagh last week, and Bedford have a clutch of Saints on the books; Hartpury are basically a subsidiary of Glaws aren't they?

....

According to my (I'm sure incomplete) records LS have used 31 dual registered players this season mostly but not entirely from Quins.



That is the extreme end of the scale; the team must never be the same week to week, so while you benefit from better quality players you never gain any cohesion, hence their position in the table I suppose.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2023 at 10:53
Very much depends on negotiation,  I reckon. If, as is usually the case in footy, there is a no-recall clause in the loan agreement, then happy days. This is how CCFC and many others in the EFL operate. However, it'll depend on how much of the player's wage is being paid by whom.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billesleyexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2023 at 11:25
Originally posted by Kimbo Kimbo wrote:

Originally posted by Big Eddie Big Eddie wrote:

Originally posted by Kimbo Kimbo wrote:

I think Cov have dispensed with the DR nonsense, but have had a few loans in to cover, mainly, front row long term injuries.

To be honest in my mind they are essentially the same thing
I understand what you're saying, but they are two different things with differing regulations.
I don't like either, but sometimes needs must.

To be honest, loaning in injury cover ought to be the least contentious end of things. IMO that's totally appropriate. OK, it would be nice I suppose to have a squad big enough to not need to do it, but Mose the other season basically broke every single player that could play fly half (something like 7) so really even when you think you've got depth...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote corporalcarrot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2023 at 11:50
Given that many Championship players are on one year contracts there doesn't seem to be a lot of difference between a one year loan and a one year contract but no doubt the fine print in the agreements will be important. The lad Jersey announced as coming from Falcons on a one year loan seems to have continued to perform for Falcons but so far not for Jersey so perhaps they always have first call.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2023 at 12:02
Since the rewrite of the regulations last summer, there are no dual registered players - except in Women's rugby.

However, England Academy players are permitted to be registered at several cubs.

Quote
An England Academy Player is permitted to simultaneously hold at any one time Effective Registration with up to four different clubs as follows: one Club at Premiership, two Clubs at Championship where one of the Championship Clubs is also an Academy (otherwise just one Club at Championship), one Club at National 1 League, and subject to Regulation 14.6.4(b) one Club at National 2 League, one Club at Regional 1 or one Club at Regional 2.

All other players must only be registered to one club, but that can be transferred is they are on loan.

The regulations permit sides in the Championship a lot of flexibility.

Quote Championship: no more than three Loan Players and no more than ten England Academy Players under the age of 24 as at 1 September 2022.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tigerburnie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2023 at 12:07
With no meaningful "A" league there's a lot of professional players not playing rugby every week, loaning them to others seems to make sense. It's not a new thing is it, Tigers sent Tom Youngs to Nottingham to convert from centre to hooker, Tom Varndell lost his mojo and was sent to Bedford to re discover his scoring tries ability, sure all concerned got something out of it all.
Lower down the leagues clubs have had DR's with varying levels of success, some players staying, some moving on if they make the step up.
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