National League Rugby Discussion Forum Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > League Rugby - www.leaguerugby.co.uk > Regional 1
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - 6 into 3 doesn't go!
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

IMPORTANT Remember to read the rules of the board and abide by them when posting.

6 into 3 doesn't go!

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
Author
Message
cobbler View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2007
Location: Derby
Status: Offline
Points: 493
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cobbler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 6 into 3 doesn't go!
    Posted: 02 Apr 2024 at 18:59

This is a sphazelnutly used section of the forum, but I thought I would try to trigger some interest!

 

The Regional One Midlands league already has a “centre of gravity” well towards the South West of the area covered by the traditional Midlands Constituent Bodies. Northern teams SKiwifruithorpe and Leek are playing in the Northern leagues and Eastern teams Bedford Ath, Oundle and ONs are playing in the South East league. Two teams from Oxfordshire are currently in the league instead.

With one team promoted and two relegated that is three teams out. Three level 6 leagues feed the league and it looks like Long Eaton (Derbyshire) although Lichfield could pip them, Silhillians (Warwickshire) and Nuneaton (Warwickshire) although in theory Lutterworth or Market Harborough could pip them, will come up. The level 4 Midlands teams all play in N2W and, guess what, the bottom three places are currently filled by Midlands teams (Dudley KW, Newport and Bournville). Bourneville could still escape, but if they do not that is 6 teams trying to go into the Midlands level 5 league. With most of the incoming sides being close to the Birmingham area (where that “centre of gravity” roughly sits, I can see 2 or 3 of the more Northerly teams heading for the Northern leagues (Stoke, Derby and Long Eaton). That wouldn’t be so bad if the 2 Northern level 5 leagues were split North / South, but the East / West split of those leagues (chosen presumably due to the M1/A1 and M6 main roads in the region) means there would be some very long journeys involved.

Back to Top
Robb View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 24 Jan 2017
Location: South East
Status: Offline
Points: 1585
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2024 at 19:42
Its a very good point because I forsee similar issues in the South because in South Central Horsham and Bournemouth going down and Havant going up, coming into the league it looks like Jersey, Amersham/Chiltern and Alleynians or Battersea with Wimbledon coming down. Even more complicated is that Royal Wootton Bassett who were in the league last year are also coming up from 2 Severn 

Given South East seems to be turning into Eastern Counties/South-Midlands (since it seems the RFU don't like paying Dartford Tolls), I guess you may find some of the southern Midlands teams ending up in South East. (Nuneaton being the obvious candidate?) 


Edited by Robb - 02 Apr 2024 at 19:48
Back to Top
Camquin View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Location: Cambridge
Status: Offline
Points: 11444
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2024 at 20:36
The RFU do retain the right to completely redraw the leagues each year.
Sweeney Delenda Est
Back to Top
cobbler View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2007
Location: Derby
Status: Offline
Points: 493
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cobbler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2024 at 20:48
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

The RFU do retain the right to completely redraw the leagues each year.
Yes I'm aware of that. And rename them accordingly too if necessary!

P.S. I took the time to check my spelling and typos but forgot the curse of the team from North Lincs and should have said "infrequently" Tongue
Back to Top
Glasshouse View Drop Down
Academy player
Academy player
Avatar

Joined: 18 Aug 2022
Location: Warwickshire
Status: Offline
Points: 19
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Glasshouse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2024 at 22:18
Could see Stoke move North and Banbury move back to South East to make space for promoted sides and relegated Midlands teams from Level 4?
Next team closest to SE is probably Kenilworth as opposed to Nuneaton?
So potentially
Long Eaton or Stoke to North
Banbury to South East
Broadstreet & Old Hales relegated
Oxford promoted (but to Level 4 East?)

Regional 1 Midlands
Nuneaton (promoted)
Silhillians (promoted)
Dudley Ks (relegated)
Newport (relegated)
Bromsgrove
Bridgnorth
Derby
Burton
Stourbridge 
Syston
Kenilworth 
Long Eaton or Stoke (or Banbury!)


Back to Top
cobbler View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2007
Location: Derby
Status: Offline
Points: 493
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cobbler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2024 at 22:26
Originally posted by Robb Robb wrote:

Its a very good point because I forsee similar issues in the South because in South Central Horsham and Bournemouth going down and Havant going up, coming into the league it looks like Jersey, Amersham/Chiltern and Alleynians or Battersea with Wimbledon coming down. Even more complicated is that Royal Wootton Bassett who were in the league last year are also coming up from 2 Severn 

Given South East seems to be turning into Eastern Counties/South-Midlands (since it seems the RFU don't like paying Dartford Tolls), I guess you may find some of the southern Midlands teams ending up in South East. (Nuneaton being the obvious candidate?) 
Ah yes I had not seen that SE contains clubs wholly North of the Thames, but yes that league is skewing North Eastwards! North Walsham probably coming down into that league from above. Maybe Syston to shuffle over? We are playing them on Saturday, I might mention that possibility to a few of their guys !! 
Back to Top
cobbler View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2007
Location: Derby
Status: Offline
Points: 493
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cobbler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2024 at 22:32
Originally posted by Glasshouse Glasshouse wrote:

Could see Stoke move North and Banbury move back to South East to make space for promoted sides and relegated Midlands teams from Level 4?
Next team closest to SE is probably Kenilworth as opposed to Nuneaton?
So potentially
Long Eaton or Stoke to North
Banbury to South East
Broadstreet & Old Hales relegated
Oxford promoted (but to Level 4 East?)

Regional 1 Midlands
Nuneaton (promoted)
Silhillians (promoted)
Dudley Ks (relegated)
Newport (relegated)
Bromsgrove
Bridgnorth
Derby
Burton
Stourbridge 
Syston
Kenilworth 
Long Eaton or Stoke (or Banbury!)



So many possibilities! And as pointed out by Robb, there are similar issues in other areas. 
Back to Top
Halliford View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 17 Feb 2010
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 4244
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halliford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2024 at 00:01
As the song said:

All we need is a great big melting pot!
Back to Top
WEvans View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 08 Dec 2016
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 1456
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WEvans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2024 at 12:15
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

The RFU do retain the right to completely redraw the leagues each year.

More like the RFU retain the right to do exactly what they like when they like and bu**er everyone else! 
Back to Top
Archangel View Drop Down
First XV squad
First XV squad
Avatar

Joined: 24 Apr 2023
Location: East Midlands
Status: Offline
Points: 41
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Archangel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2024 at 14:05
Regional 1 South East which worked very well this season, should have been be relatively simple: Colchester go up to L4 to replace North Walsham coming down, Westcliff & Rochford Hundred go down to L6 with Southend Saxons coming up along with Amersham & Chiltern (very close to Tring etc) ... but that was before they go and lose to Belzise Park!

Therefore before it is no doubt changed by our TW masters should look like:

North Walsham
Sudbury
Harpenden
Letchworth Garden City
Shelford
Oundle
Old Northamptonians
HUEL Tring
Hertford
Bedford Athletic
Southend Saxons
Amersham & Chiltern/Belsize Park
Too old but young enough to learn
Back to Top
Mark W-J View Drop Down
Coaching staff
Coaching staff
Avatar

Joined: 22 May 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3688
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W-J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2024 at 15:50
That's fine in isolation - but if there are lots of Midlands teams at L5 and a big hole across West Sussex, Hampshire and Dorset (as alluded to above) then the boundaries could all be shifted anti-clockwise by 30 degrees to redraw the line of best fit.

Edited by Mark W-J - 03 Apr 2024 at 15:51
Back to Top
Kimbo View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 31 May 2007
Location: 'incleh
Status: Online
Points: 6433
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2024 at 16:49
Originally posted by Robb Robb wrote:

Its a very good point because I forsee similar issues in the South because in South Central Horsham and Bournemouth going down and Havant going up, coming into the league it looks like Jersey, Amersham/Chiltern and Alleynians or Battersea with Wimbledon coming down. Even more complicated is that Royal Wootton Bassett who were in the league last year are also coming up from 2 Severn 

Given South East seems to be turning into Eastern Counties/South-Midlands (since it seems the RFU don't like paying Dartford Tolls), I guess you may find some of the southern Midlands teams ending up in South East. (Nuneaton being the obvious candidate?) 
Nuneaton is the most central of Midlands rugby clubs (if you accept the newer thinking of Lindley Hall Farm being the centre of England). (And if you don't, and still consider my Gt Grandfather's birthplace, Meriden to be the centre, it's north of that).
Our City,
Our Club
Back to Top
Kimbo View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 31 May 2007
Location: 'incleh
Status: Online
Points: 6433
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2024 at 16:50
Double post

Edited by Kimbo - 03 Apr 2024 at 17:12
Our City,
Our Club
Back to Top
Golden Jackal View Drop Down
British and Irish Lion
British and Irish Lion
Avatar

Joined: 18 Apr 2020
Location: E Anglia
Status: Offline
Points: 160
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Golden Jackal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2024 at 17:14
So do we think the RFU responding to clubs at Lower Levels by flattening the pyramid at the top (i.e 3 Leagues at L4, 8 at L5 etc) has helped our clubs???  To me it seems far more complicated now and for those clubs that "border" other regions it must be very disconcerting...   What was wrong with London 1, Nat 2 South, Nat 1 for example...you knew where you stood and the likely distances involved!


Back to Top
cobbler View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2007
Location: Derby
Status: Offline
Points: 493
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cobbler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2024 at 18:04
Originally posted by Golden Jackal Golden Jackal wrote:

So do we think the RFU responding to clubs at Lower Levels by flattening the pyramid at the top (i.e 3 Leagues at L4, 8 at L5 etc) has helped our clubs???  To me it seems far more complicated now and for those clubs that "border" other regions it must be very disconcerting...   What was wrong with London 1, Nat 2 South, Nat 1 for example...you knew where you stood and the likely distances involved!


Well there were always instances in the past of teams being moved away from what might be considered their "natural" league (used to be called level transfers). But with this setup up:

3 L4 leagues - none specifically for midlands
6 level 5 leagues - only one specifically for midlands (i.e. labelled as such)
12 level 6 leagues - 3 specifically for midlands

The chances seems to be much higher.
Back to Top
Dagfish View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 22 May 2009
Location: Solihull
Status: Offline
Points: 315
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dagfish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2024 at 18:07
My understanding was that it is not a case of promotion / relegation between the specific leagues, but completely re-drawing the leagues every year once the 72 teams at Regional 1 level are known.
In practice, the leagues may look similar from one season to the next, but in theory they could come up with a completely different geographical split each year. So in reality, looking at how any specific league may look next season is not really a valid proposition until after the end of the season.


Edited by Dagfish - 03 Apr 2024 at 18:11
Back to Top
islander View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 17 Mar 2010
Location: jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 7607
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote islander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2024 at 18:51
Agree with those who point out that a 'whole country' solution is needed at each level, with the total number of clubs divided equally into 3 leagues (at L4), 6 (L5) etc. And some form of rebalancing (via level transfers) will always be something liable to be necessary with a pyramid system, however broad or narrow it is...
Back to Top
Robb View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 24 Jan 2017
Location: South East
Status: Offline
Points: 1585
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 2024 at 07:11
Originally posted by Archangel Archangel wrote:

Regional 1 South East which worked very well this season, should have been be relatively simple: Colchester go up to L4 to replace North Walsham coming down, Westcliff & Rochford Hundred go down to L6 with Southend Saxons coming up along with Amersham & Chiltern (very close to Tring etc) ... but that was before they go and lose to Belzise Park!

Therefore before it is no doubt changed by our TW masters should look like:

North Walsham
Sudbury
Harpenden
Letchworth Garden City
Shelford
Oundle
Old Northamptonians
HUEL Tring
Hertford
Bedford Athletic
Southend Saxons
Amersham & Chiltern/Belsize Park

In theory, everything should work out fine like that. But I do suspect there may be issues in Central/SW with Woottoon Bassett returning because in Central it should be Havant up/Wimbledon down and Horsham/Bournemouth down and Jersey/Alleynians or Battersea up. 

I guess RWB'll just have to fight with Marlborough to decide who goes to Kent and who has to go to Cornwall at the longest trip. (Looking at Google Maps, I think RWB will go SW and Marlborough stay in Central). 

But, as you say. Its not up to our logic, its the powers that be at Twickers who decide the fate and travel of so many clubs.
Back to Top
Greg View Drop Down
First XV regular
First XV regular


Joined: 30 Jan 2020
Location: Norfolk
Status: Offline
Points: 110
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 2024 at 10:41
Help please.
Does anybody know how many teams will be relegated from Level 6 (Regional Anglia 2)?
Living in Norwich, my two local clubs - North Walsham and Norwich - are both facing relegation from their respective leagues.
North Walsham will certainly be relegated but Norwich might survive if they can win on Saturday - but only if one team is relegated.
It's not been a great year over here - Norfolk County Cricket Club were also relegated at the end of their season.
Horatio Nelson - your county needs you!
Back to Top
Robb View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 24 Jan 2017
Location: South East
Status: Offline
Points: 1585
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 2024 at 11:46
Originally posted by Greg Greg wrote:

Help please.
Does anybody know how many teams will be relegated from Level 6 (Regional Anglia 2)?
Living in Norwich, my two local clubs - North Walsham and Norwich - are both facing relegation from their respective leagues.
North Walsham will certainly be relegated but Norwich might survive if they can win on Saturday - but only if one team is relegated.
It's not been a great year over here - Norfolk County Cricket Club were also relegated at the end of their season.
Horatio Nelson - your county needs you!

I think according to the RFU's table, it looks like Norwich are out of contention for the "lucky loser" spot. Sorry.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.04
Copyright ©2001-2021 Web Wiz Ltd.