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Direction of travel
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FHLH View Drop Down
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Cambridge

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    Posted: 14 Oct 2024 at 14:39
Where do you want to go?

Current level 4, were level 2 or 3 - 14 teams (please correct any missing)

Tynedale     
Fylde 
Ionians v Tigers      
Leeds Tykes     
Wharfedale    
Henley  
Old Albanian    
Tonbridge Juddians  
Cinderford v Redruth     
Macclesfield     
Taunton     
Loughborough Students   

Current level 2, from level 3

L Scottish 
Ampthill
Hartpury 
Jersey
Caldy
Cambridge 
Chinnor

Question for National Two clubs, or anyone, what do you consider to be a reasonable long-term target? 

With the reliance on Dual Registration, Loan players mixed in with some full time teams and a drip of RFU funding, is The Championship a sensible option?

Answers on the back of the last letter from home.

PS my personal preference is National One

PPS please don't use "Quote" to reply without editing my content. We'll end up with long replies 


Edited by FHLH - 14 Oct 2024 at 23:40
"My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts."
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Thatbloke View Drop Down
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Sorry - don't understand this post or it's title?? 

Edited by Thatbloke - 14 Oct 2024 at 14:56
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Paul10 View Drop Down
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Yep. Too cryptic for me too.
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islander View Drop Down
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As Midge Ure once sang: "This means nothing to me..."
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Points: 11453 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 2024 at 16:25
What I think my galliform friend is asking is:
Of the clubs that used to play in the top two levels but are now currently at level 4 - do you find the current level more satisfying, or would you prefer being back in a fully national division.

And of the clubs currently - for want of a better word - enjoying life in the Championship, was the rugby better lower down the leagues, would you prefer to be in a regional set up, with potentially less travel and more local derbies

Sweeney Delenda Est
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backrowb View Drop Down
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Points: 1666 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote backrowb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 2024 at 16:36
Do I find visiting real rugby clubs (Leeds Tykes not included), all within 2.5 hrs of home, and watching a good level of rugby, then yes, far better for me.
Glad not to be in Loughborough's league too.
I look at the video of Lions v Roth on here and see about 50 people watching - In many cases the game really is not sustainable at national level 3 and we see a drift to where the money is at. The South

 
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How did London Scottish end up on your list?
Would put them alongside Bedford, Coventry and Nottingham. I imagine their followers feel at home with these ‘old’ friends.
The older I get, the more the RFU leave me confused.
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Cambridge

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Originally posted by backrowb backrowb wrote:

I look at the video of Lions v Roth on here and see about 50 people watching - In many cases the game really is not sustainable at national level 3 and we see a drift to where the money is at. The South



239 per TRP,  but then Tigers v Northampton on same day, however only 260 previous home game vs Sedgely Park

Another issue then, atmosphere.


Edited by FHLH - 14 Oct 2024 at 17:35
"My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts."
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Cambridge

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Originally posted by kempstonblue kempstonblue wrote:

How did London Scottish end up on your list?
.

They were in National One, so have travelled through 

as an aside, I see London Welsh are currently in top Level 5 with Jersey 2nd


Edited by FHLH - 14 Oct 2024 at 17:40
"My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts."
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Originally posted by FHLH FHLH wrote:

Originally posted by backrowb backrowb wrote:

I look at the video of Lions v Roth on here and see about 50 people watching - In many cases the game really is not sustainable at national level 3 and we see a drift to where the money is at. The South




239 per TRP,  but then Tigers v Northampton on same day, however only 260 previous home game vs Sedgely Park

Another issue then, atmosphere.



Clearly didn’t see or hear all the Roth supporters then ! 😂 Roth always take a coach or more to away games. Great crowd.
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Se7en View Drop Down
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200 - 300 spectators for a level 3 club seems very low, not sure what genuine fans Leicester Lions have, being second in the city to a major club like the Tigers. They are still relatively new to National 1 so if they stay up, perhaps the number of fans will grow. They had 2 future England stars playing in their pack against Rotherham in the form of Chessum and Logan.

**Edit - their Instagram account highlights plenty (6 players) of young Premiership rugby talent on show for the Rotherham game just gone. 3 Tigers players, 2 Saints players and 1 Sale Sharks player **

Rams average 800 - 1000 week in week out, and had just shy of 1,200 a few weeks ago when Leicester Lions visited, which must have been a novelty for their players in front of such a big crowd (it was the Centenary game though).

There is no big Prem club nearby to rival the fanbase and since London Irish went under, some of their fans now travel to OBR to support Rams as their new team, so the numbers have grown.


Edited by Se7en - 14 Oct 2024 at 20:34
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islander View Drop Down
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I understand now, I think...

You should scratch Jersey Reds from your Champ list as that team ceased to be part of the level 2 set-up on the cessation of trading a year ago.

Jersey RFC's 1st (and only regularly-playing men's team) is, as mentioned, at the top of Regional 2 SC (level 5) with London Welsh (1pt ahead). Personally I support the club's current stance of going as far as is possible as an amateur team but not reverting to paying players, as happened here from 2006-13 (the club went from fully amateur to fully pro during that period, going up four levels, before the becoming a fixture at level 2 over the subsequent decade, lifting the Champ trophy but going bust in the process).

I'd hope Nat 2 might be a realistic ambition for Jersey RFC, maybe not next season but hopefully at some stage, but would expect that a fully amateur club would 'hit its head on the ceiling' once it had reached that level. Thoroughly enjoyed Nat 1 and 2 when we were there before and regretted only having one season in each...
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Originally posted by islander islander wrote:

I'd hope Nat 2 might be a realistic ambition for Jersey RFC, maybe not next season but hopefully at some stage, but would expect that a fully amateur club would 'hit its head on the ceiling' once it had reached that level. Thoroughly enjoyed Nat 1 and 2 when we were there before and regretted only having one season in each...

I concur that National One / Two are comfortable leagues to be in for the quality of rugby, the relative proximity of the clubs and the financial burden and associated stress placed on the Committee in the current financial climate.

Some clubs will aspire to higher things but see how Ealing have stalled at the top or near top of The Championship. (cf Elthamians/Wasps/Jersey etc)
"My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts."
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Mark W-J View Drop Down
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Originally posted by islander islander wrote:

I'd hope Nat 2 might be a realistic ambition for Jersey RFC, maybe not next season but hopefully at some stage, but would expect that a fully amateur club would 'hit its head on the ceiling' once it had reached that level.
That's exactly how we feel.  Fingers crossed this will be our year, but beyond that we don't really expect to make further progress.
(Hopefully that doesn't sound like a lack of ambition, or that we're just there to make up the numbers.)
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Carlos the Tackle View Drop Down
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Points: 426 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carlos the Tackle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 2024 at 08:30
Sedgley Park and Otley have reached level 2 a couple of decades ago.
Alongside this, Birmingham Solihull, London Welsh, Penzance and Newlyn and maybe Newbury did play at the same time in the league before it was re structured.
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London Scottish

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Are sides bottom half of current Championship and top half current Nat 1 waiting to see what Prem 2 brings Ermm Wacko (and any further/subsequent re-org @ Nat Level - on the back of this).  The known unknown ?

Edited by BigChief - 15 Oct 2024 at 08:43
For the ordinary purposes of conversation, a superficial knowledge of many things goes further than an intimacy with one or two.
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Originally posted by Carlos the Tackle Carlos the Tackle wrote:

Sedgley Park and Otley have reached level 2 a couple of decades ago.
Alongside this, Birmingham Solihull, London Welsh, Penzance and Newlyn and maybe Newbury did play at the same time in the league before it was re structured.
Did you mean Launceston?
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Originally posted by Mark W-J Mark W-J wrote:

Originally posted by Carlos the Tackle Carlos the Tackle wrote:

Sedgley Park and Otley have reached level 2 a couple of decades ago.
Alongside this, Birmingham Solihull, London Welsh, Penzance and Newlyn and maybe Newbury did play at the same time in the league before it was re structured.
Did you mean Launceston?

No. I didn't mean Launceston although they did play at level 2 for about
 1season in around 05/06
Penzance and Newlyn were a  club that I believe reinvented itself as cornish pirates. They had some sort of feeder team who played independently as mounts bay but that club folded . They reached Nat 2 level
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Carlos the Tackle View Drop Down
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Manchester, Orrell and Wakefield were level 2 teams too.
You know what happened with the latter 2 teams.
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Points: 426 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carlos the Tackle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 2024 at 12:33
Did Waterloo play at level 2. Rotherham perhaps did under the guise of Earth Titans ( who remembers that ?)
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