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Camquin View Drop Down
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    Posted: 07 Aug 2022 at 12:33
Struggling for sponsorship.
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Money is tight all round and times are tough, won't be the first sadly as the RFU don't seem to know what they are doing.
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I think if you were to look at all the Womens Premiership teams they all make significant loses, and currently crowds for Premiership matches are very low, In contrast to the international game.

Having re-read what i have written above . . it is exactly the same for the mens game!!!!
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Because they are not attached to a Premiership mens club the RFU will let them wither and die as it does not suit their quest for "Super Club" dominance of the game.

Either Newcastle Falcons pick up the peices and get parachuted in the the Womens Premiership as happened with Sale or there will be no top flight Womens Rugby in the North East.
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Originally posted by Runitback Runitback wrote:

I think if you were to look at all the Womens Premiership teams they all make significant loses, and currently crowds for Premiership matches are very low, In contrast to the international game.

Having re-read what i have written above . . it is exactly the same for the mens game!!!!
We played Wasps FC at Acton in 2016-17, and their women were playing Bristol on the main pitch, so our game was relegated to one of the back pitches. There were over 200 people watching our Herts & Middlesex 1 (level 9) fixture, and the proverbial two men and a dog watching a top-flight women's game.  Although I should point out that this was the year before it was rebranded as the Premier 15s, and the women's game didn't have the profile that it does now.
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The RFU are just going to parachute in another Premiership women's team, rather than let the women's game stand on its own.
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front5 View Drop Down
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Points: 412 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote front5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2022 at 19:43
I think the support which has been offered from DMP over the last few years has been tremendous, but the support offered from the RFU for the womens game is not at the same level as the mens at the equivalent standard. Granted not the same in level of performance or interest but there is still national travel, losing days at work, training 2-3 times a week all around a day job in most cases.

Let’s be honest if the Sharks relocated to London - Bedford - even Sheffield the costs of travel would be at least halved and opportunities for sponsorship would at least double. Trying to run a premiership team from the North East just isn’t a viable option.

It’s the north south divide shown clearly and the bias does not allow a northern club to succeed without a private backer with significant investment 


Edited by front5 - 07 Aug 2022 at 19:47
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Have we missed a trick here?
When the women's game started to rocket should we have looked at the NZ model and regionalised the competition? Maybe under some sort of franchise system?

I have been to the last two internationals at Castle Park Doncaster and the local support from the young female rugby population was just amazing. They really need to keep this buzz going in the north.
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Points: 3026 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote castleparknight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2022 at 11:55
Originally posted by Sail By Sail By wrote:

Have we missed a trick here?
When the women's game started to rocket should we have looked at the NZ model and regionalised the competition? Maybe under some sort of franchise system?

I have been to the last two internationals at Castle Park Doncaster and the local support from the young female rugby population was just amazing. They really need to keep this buzz going in the north.


the local support was very good at Castle Park - folk had travelled a fair bit from around the surrounding counties to get here but it is very nicely located regarding accessibility so perhaps relocating to Castle Park would help them..... but who knows
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Points: 6605 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2022 at 12:49
Originally posted by Sail By Sail By wrote:

Have we missed a trick here?
When the women's game started to rocket should we have looked at the NZ model and regionalised the competition? Maybe under some sort of franchise system?




The problem is the Women's game is slowly replicating the structure of the Men's game, one we all know doesn't work unless it is over invested into. 

Regional rugby would have been a better option but I think we've missed the bus now. 
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Robb View Drop Down
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Points: 1587 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2022 at 12:16
They've set up a crowdfunder here.
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Don't remember any crowd funding for Richmond or Waterloo when both trailblazing Women's clubs got kicked from the Premier 15s. Must be a new regulation.

Good luck to DMP but this shows massive weaknesses in both their Club model and the women's professional game.
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clieves View Drop Down
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Originally posted by PiffPaff PiffPaff wrote:

Don't remember any crowd funding for Richmond or Waterloo when both trailblazing Women's clubs got kicked from the Premier 15s. Must be a new regulation.

Good luck to DMP but this shows massive weaknesses in both their Club model and the women's professional game.

No point, neither side ran out of money, they just didn't fit into the overall plans
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front5 View Drop Down
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Points: 412 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote front5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2022 at 19:09
Originally posted by PiffPaff PiffPaff wrote:

Don't remember any crowd funding for Richmond or Waterloo when both trailblazing Women's clubs got kicked from the Premier 15s. Must be a new regulation.

Good luck to DMP but this shows massive weaknesses in both their Club model and the women's professional game.

PiffPaft - what an unfounded and certainly short sighted thing to say? Can you clarify any data or evidence you have for your derogatory comments?

You comment on a club structure - may you enlighten us on what is the issue?
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Points: 1126 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PiffPaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2022 at 07:39
f5 - its quite simple really. Why is 1 club in the top professional/semi-professional Women's League in Europe having to have a whip-round to continue to function? What happens next season or in fact if DMP don't make their target this? 

All Premier 15 Clubs are supposed to have a business/operating plan in place, the recently announced 10 year strategy on the future of Premier 15s by the RFU also makes reference to sustainability, how is asking for donations sustainable. Like I said good luck, but I would suggest when the open applications to join/re-join the Premier 15s later this season then like Richmond and Waterloo before them DMP won't retain their spot. 
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Camquin View Drop Down
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Points: 11453 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2022 at 09:30
Wasps are rumoured to be arranging a CVA because they cannot repay their bond, is that sustainable?
If the rumours are true, the DMP shortfall could probably be settled from Wasps' lawyers' fees.
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Points: 11453 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2022 at 13:52
Good news
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front5 View Drop Down
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Points: 412 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote front5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2022 at 14:39
Originally posted by PiffPaff PiffPaff wrote:

f5 - its quite simple really. Why is 1 club in the top professional/semi-professional Women's League in Europe having to have a whip-round to continue to function? What happens next season or in fact if DMP don't make their target this? 

All Premier 15 Clubs are supposed to have a business/operating plan in place, the recently announced 10 year strategy on the future of Premier 15s by the RFU also makes reference to sustainability, how is asking for donations sustainable. Like I said good luck, but I would suggest when the open applications to join/re-join the Premier 15s later this season then like Richmond and Waterloo before them DMP won't retain their spot. 


I am somewhat perplexed with the fact you think the womens premiership is either a professional or semi professional league? 

Only the elite players with England contracts are paid to play of which DMP have none? 
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PiffPaff View Drop Down
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f5 - thanks for backing up my point. Some Players (not all) have full-time professional contracts to enable them to play for England and in the Premier 15s. Some players (not all of them) are on some form of payment contract for playing in the Premier 15s and some (not all of them) are doing it for fun. The RFU's Grand Plan is to turn the "Elite" Women's League (their words not mine) in to a full-time professional league by 2032.

That said current make up of the Premier 15s is as follows (source RFU): hence I stand by my earlier comment

The 2021-22 Premier 15s salary cap was £120,000 for squads of around 40 players. Some sides offered a part-time salary, some match fees, others provided expenses - and a minority offered no payment at all.
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front5 View Drop Down
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Points: 412 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote front5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2022 at 19:59
Originally posted by PiffPaff PiffPaff wrote:

f5 - thanks for backing up my point. Some Players (not all) have full-time professional contracts to enable them to play for England and in the Premier 15s. Some players (not all of them) are on some form of payment contract for playing in the Premier 15s and some (not all of them) are doing it for fun. The RFU's Grand Plan is to turn the "Elite" Women's League (their words not mine) in to a full-time professional league by 2032.

That said current make up of the Premier 15s is as follows (source RFU): hence I stand by my earlier comment

The 2021-22 Premier 15s salary cap was £120,000 for squads of around 40 players. Some sides offered a part-time salary, some match fees, others provided expenses - and a minority offered no payment at all.

I don’t think I backed up your point? You raised comments about DMP Sharks playing in a professional/ semi professional league which is not the case at all.

I don’t think you are able to provide any factual information to standby your original comment and it seems you are to a degree rubbing salt into the wounds of a team which has struggled at the level they have been playing at. 

It isn’t feasible for any club to fund a team which does not cover the cost to serve. I assume it’s this is why a crowdfunding exercise is taking place, I assume you haven't donated to the cause to leep the ladies playing rugby regardless of the club situation?  

I see it as if there are a group of people who want to play our fantastic sport, however they fund it is irrelevant, it is for the love of our sport they wish to continue in the league! 

Also based on your figures the average weekly pay for a player would be less than £58/week?


Edited by front5 - 12 Aug 2022 at 20:04
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