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The run in.....................
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tigerburnie View Drop Down
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    Posted: Yesterday at 16:25
Race to avoid the drop'
If Leicester Lions win this weekend, that will I understand confirm DMP's relegation.
So a lot of presumption here, but looking at the fixture lists, Lions have only two away fixtures, whereas Esher have three. So is the Esher v Lions game in a couple of weekends, the "do or die" match?
Both clubs have extremely important matches this weekend, neither can afford to lose, should Lions win at home and Esher lose at Dings, those points on the board could be disappearing.
Fixtures for:-
Lions have
DMP at home
Esher away
Sale home
Dings away
Blackheath home
Bishops Stortford home

Esher have
Dings away
Leicester Lions home
Bishops Stortford away
Moseley home
Plymouth Albion away
Sedgeley Park home


it's gonna be tight I think.



Edited by tigerburnie - Yesterday at 16:28
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Rothman2 View Drop Down
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Isn’t there still the uncertainty that 3 might go down which might draw more teams into it?

If two, it could be pivotal, as I see that this weekend, not only Lions at home to DMP but also Dings at home to Esher, which could be interesting.
Unfortunately the uncertainty of what is happening is typical of the RFU. I remember us beating Exeter in the late nineties on the last day of the season in the Championship and it was not known whether the promotion play offs, that we were potentially involved in, was going to happen, or if indeed there would be relegation, which, if confirmed would have sent Exeter down. 

Ultimately the play offs went ahead, and Exeter stayed up as there was ultimately no relegation due to expansion of the Championship from 12 to 14 teams.




Edited by Rothman2 - Yesterday at 17:34
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tigerburnie View Drop Down
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With the RFU lurking somewhere, they could split Nat 1 into North and South and no one goes down. Depending on the size of Premiership 2, there might be no relegations if more go up due to Worcester, London Irish and Wasps all failing to show up.
So we have no idea do we?
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Good point although I think it would be criminal to regionalise a great league like National 1.  Depends though if the clubs themselves want it. Also it might dilute the quality of the league.

Seeing as the Championship clubs seem not to be interested in the Premiership Cup maybe, as in 1995/96 they might promote 4 and relegate no one.

Bizarre though that we are in March & we have no idea of what is happening. Everyone really needs certainty or it could stilt the whole competition.


Edited by Rothman2 - Yesterday at 17:51
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Appreciate how frustrating the lack of confirmation of details must be. Having said that the prospect of the Champ being 14 teams & the knock-on effects of this on relegation down the pyramid were shared several weeks ago.

Just checked the RFU London site to check the above and there's an update from last weekend that includes the relegation spreadsheet. See link below. Only 2 down from Nat 1, and 5 from the trio of N2 leagues...
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Thanks Tom.

I did see hear about the regional thing. Was it not mentioned last year?
What I can’t work out is why they think Nat 1 is a community game?
I really don’t see any merits in bringing in any of the ex Prem Clubs. I really don’t think they’ve can bring anything to the table. Some of their fans even think that the Championship should be some kind of feeder to support the Prem teams. Some even say they’d be happy to take a place in Nat 1. !!!! Others saying the Championship clubs have no ambition. Oh my goodness. At the end of the day it’s about the product on the field. 

The sense of entitlement is off the scale.

My solution would be to cut out the middle man - put them back in the Premiership. They seem suited to that league. Just leave our National leagues alone. Promotion is earned on the field - not in a committee room.




Edited by Rothman2 - 22 hours 11 minutes ago at 21:28
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There is some sort of plan where by the RFU give control to the Championship and National leagues in return for not forcing the vote of no confidence to remove some of the hierarchy at the forthcoming extra ordinary meeting.
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Tigerburnie.

I have now read Islanders kind link. On that basis yes it looks to be between you and Esher. I wish you well. You are certainly very difficult to beat. Esher had a purple patch but seem to have dropped off a little so you certainly have a chance.
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Originally posted by tigerburnie tigerburnie wrote:

There is some sort of plan where by the RFU give control to the Championship and National leagues in return for not forcing the vote of no confidence to remove some of the hierarchy at the forthcoming extra ordinary meeting.

Sorry Tigerburnie. It’s been a long day. I didn’t read anything about control to the Championship. I thought it said in a second motion about giving grassroots clubs over to community Rugby.

Does anyone know at what level community Rugby is? National 1 would not be my definition of that as it is effectively semi pro so it can’t be that.

The definition of Community Rugby is stated on the Caldy site as:

“Community Rugby covers Mini and Junior Rugby from U6-Senior Colts (u18), Girls Rugby and Touch Rugby”.

So are we /am I mistaking the term as including the National Leagues when it actually refers to Junior Rugby?

I am confused. Does anyone have any information on this?
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I have been banging on about what is the community game for ages. It is a completely wrong to categorise Nat 1 as being part of the community game.  It just isn't.
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Agreed. Any club that pays its players (Champ down to Level 5 - Regional 1 on the whole, and some Level 6 clubs too) is not a 'community club' in the truest sense. 

Of course nearly all of the Champ Clubs down to Level 5 and beyond to the Counties leagues of Levels 7, 8, 9 etc will have 'community sections' for mini, junior, colts, girls, 2/3 XV, Vets etc to play, but this is quite different from labelling yourself as a 'Championship or National 1 community club' with regards to 1 XVs. 


Edited by Nat1 - 10 hours 47 minutes ago at 08:52
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tigerburnie View Drop Down
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We are dealing with the RFU though, so you can discount any form of common sense I would suggest, t will very much depend on their agenda and what they think they could get away with to keep their collective snouts in the trough.
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Now I may be misunderstanding this statement from an organisation I was not aware existed, but whilst not naming any level directly, seems to imply all leagues not at "elite  level".
Now do we really think the National leagues are the elite level.
Released this afternoon (Tuesday), the Whole Game Union, WGU, have made this corruscating statement:

' Every single one of the proposals in Sir Bill Beaumont’s letter to clubs on February 28th and the supporting RFU document called “Our Commitment to the Community Game” was covered by the statement that members of the Whole Game Union made in submitting our demand for an SGM on January 9th.

The RFU’s document could have been copied from the Whole Game Union’s “A Better Future For Rugby At All Levels” document sent to all RFU-registered clubs in England on Feb 17th.
The RFU’s “commitment to the community game” was absent without leave before this recent flurry of activity. They had failed to notice the growing dissatisfaction with the Executive, Board and Council that was obvious from press reports for months before January 9th.
Our ‘Better Future’ document summarised months of work and consultation by the WGU which identified from hundreds of clubs the root causes of their dissatisfaction with Twickenham: poor governance; unsustainable finances; bloated administrative structure and neglect of the community game in favour of the elite.

The only elements overlooked by the RFU in their own version of this were the frustration caused by the payment of huge bonuses to their executives and the identification of the RFU Board’s failure to hold those executives to account. The RFU’s actions until last week had focused on defending itself from criticism over its LTIP bonus scheme. The resignation of the Chairman on December 20th was described as a personal decision linked to the “distraction” caused by the LTIP story. The announcement of the Freshfields review was limited to consideration of that bonus scheme.

If you want to know what the RFU really thought, maybe the President of the RFU gave it away last December. Then, in what he thought was a private internal message, he belittled the reporting on growing discontent throughout our game as media spin and clickbait. This showed little “commitment to the community game”. It was only after the SGM letter was reluctantly accepted – having initially been rejected on trivial grounds – that the RFU announced its roadshow. And it was only when the powers that be finally left Twickenham that they seem to have found out just how deep-seated is the resentment at the unfairness meted out to clubs below the elite. What they discovered may have shocked them into action, but it was their attitudes were before they were forced to confront the truth by which they should still be judged now. Because even until the end of last week, the Board and Executive were exhibiting contempt for the Whole Game Union, without whose actions they would still be rooted in TW2, blissfully unaware of the dire state of the game for which they are responsible. Like anyone who tries to express the views of the underprivileged, the WGU is the subject of constant abuse and contempt from Twickenham. Yet only the WGU has accurately represented the collective views of hundreds of clubs and members of the RFU. It is a broad-based group with an advisory board consisting of more than 20 people from clubs at every tier, several Council members and expert former officials of the RFU. It is continually in touch with clubs from all over the country and its support is growing.

The RFU would be well advised to start to take the WGU seriously, to recognise that it is the only way of hearing the collective voice of the English game and to respect its right to a central place in the critical discussions about the future of English rugby.'

Think the Howitzers are now ready to fire!
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If Richmond isn't a community club, I don't know what is: 4/5 men's XVs, 2 women's, Vets, Colts/Juniors and 600 minis. Goes on annual tour. Works in schools to spread rugby, has defibrillator fundraising campaign and on and on. 

But RFC is top of Nat 1 so by some of the definitions here, it isn't a community club. I think if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck...
Broken down. Beyond repair.
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Originally posted by Breakdown Breakdown wrote:

If Richmond isn't a community club, I don't know what is: 4/5 men's XVs, 2 women's, Vets, Colts/Juniors and 600 minis. Goes on annual tour. Works in schools to spread rugby, has defibrillator fundraising campaign and on and on. 

But RFC is top of Nat 1 so by some of the definitions here, it isn't a community club. I think if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck...


Exactly. If the definition of a community club is as suggested above there isn't a community club in NL1 and I would suggest very few in the other three NLs.

Let's not attack each other in our haste to disassociate ourselves from the fully Professional game.
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Officially all Clubs from Level 3 (National 1) down are considered Community Clubs. Oversight of National 1 Clubs switched from the Professional Game Board to the Community Game Board about 5 years ago, despite complaints from National 1 Clubs.

The RFU have suggested a second proposition to be voted on at the SGM, although they have yet to say how that can be added legally. That proposition is a Governance Review to be completed by the AGM in the summer. That Review would consider regionalisation of governance. I see a problem with that in that it involves the CBs (turkeys) voting for their potential abolition (Christmas).

It is worth noting that the National Leagues have 1 vote on the RFU Council, probably insufficient given our influence on the game.
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