National League Rugby Discussion Forum Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > League Rugby - www.leaguerugby.co.uk > Clubhouse chat
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Rugby codes reuniting
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

IMPORTANT Remember to read the rules of the board and abide by them when posting.

Rugby codes reuniting
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Greg View Drop Down
First XV regular
First XV regular


Joined: 30 Jan 2020
Location: Norfolk
Status: Offline
Points: 110 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Rugby codes reuniting
    Posted: 12 Jan 2024 at 17:58
Is this worthy of discussion?
The talent pool for rugby players is diluted because of having two codes.
We know that the 'Union' game is in a parlous state in many countries (Britain and Australia for certain). 
I can't comment on the health of the 'League' code because I have no personal experience of it.
Would it really be so dramatic to consider and discuss bringing the game back under one code?
Clearly there would be hearty discussions about what form the 'new' code would look like:-
- 13 or 15 players;
- contested or uncontested tackles;
- line outs and scrummaging
- points awarded
What are the other significant differences between the two codes?
Will it ever happen?
Back to Top
Richard Lowther View Drop Down
Coaching staff
Coaching staff
Avatar
Moderator

Joined: 19 May 2007
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 6605 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2024 at 18:40
The amateur level Rugby league code has been on a steep decline for years and clubs have stopped putting out open age teams and leagues have shrunk.

At that level there is a lot of interchange of players between the two codes, made easier by the different seasons of each. 

At the Semi pro level most clubs survive hand to mouth and suffer the same issues as their Union counterparts. 

At the top Superleague level the game is facing the IMG plan to try and revitalise it. 

At international level I'm afraid it is a farce. 

All this just to say it won't happen and uniting two codes with their own financial issues won't solve anything. 
Moderator National League Rugby Message Boards



Remember Wakefield RFC
Back to Top
IonMan View Drop Down
British and Irish Lion
British and Irish Lion
Avatar

Joined: 19 Feb 2010
Location: East Yorkshire
Status: Offline
Points: 150 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IonMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2024 at 11:54
When you here the comments by many rugby league supporters when their academy matches are played at Hull Ionians you realise how different the codes are. Though if the crowds that go to Hull FC and Hull KR came to the Hull Ionians Rugby Union games we would be very happy, but overloaded!
Back to Top
Stoatgobbler View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 29 Jan 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 477 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stoatgobbler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2024 at 17:17
As a fan of both codes, I'd say "not a chance".

One day you might see a "hybrid" game, which will be played exclusively for the telly and watched only by the curious, a bit like those Wigan Bath cross code games some years back.


Edited by Stoatgobbler - 13 Jan 2024 at 17:17
Back to Top
CJB1 View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar
Moseley

Joined: 25 May 2007
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 1921 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CJB1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2024 at 20:20
Those weren't hybrid games, they were games where an RU team tried to play RL and the reverse.  As expected, the RL team won the RL game and the RU team won the RU game, though Wigan probably put up a better fight in the RU game than Bath did in the RL game.  However we must remember that at that time RL had been professional for many years and RU was just starting on that journey.

Not long after that, (1996) Wigan RLFC were invited to the Middlesex Sevens and won the competition.  And Bradford Bulls (who I still prefer to think of as Bradford Northern) won it in 2002.
"What I need is a strong drink and a peer group"
Back to Top
Camquin View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Location: Cambridge
Status: Offline
Points: 11453 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2024 at 20:23
I seem to recall it was RU with uncontested scrums.
Sweeney Delenda Est
Back to Top
CJB1 View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar
Moseley

Joined: 25 May 2007
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 1921 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CJB1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2024 at 20:40
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

I seem to recall it was RU with uncontested scrums.
Not as I recall it.  Understandably Wigan struggled with fully contested scrums, and maybe Bath didn't put their full effort into it.  But back then even RL scrums were more of a competitive affair than nowadays, with the hookers actually striking for the ball.  It's really only in the last twenty years or so that RL scrums have become the farce that they are now.
"What I need is a strong drink and a peer group"
Back to Top
Halliford View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 17 Feb 2010
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 4245 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halliford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 2024 at 12:44
I remember Bath just about beating Wigan at RU. Wigan had to use a coach as a lock as they did not have forwards big enough. When they ran the ball, Bath struggled..
Back to Top
Count Ford View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 20 May 2017
Location: WA4
Status: Offline
Points: 412 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Count Ford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 2024 at 14:06
I can't see it ever happening and while I enjoy both codes, I suspect a lot more Rugby League fans would turn to watching football before Rugby Union or some hybrid version
Back to Top
islander View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 17 Mar 2010
Location: jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 7609 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote islander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 2024 at 14:44
Those with partial/total lack of recall about the Bath/Wigan games in '96 can fill in the gaps via this Wikipedia page should they wish...  
Back to Top
Stoatgobbler View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 29 Jan 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 477 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stoatgobbler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 2024 at 16:03
Originally posted by Halliford Halliford wrote:

I remember Bath just about beating Wigan at RU. Wigan had to use a coach as a lock as they did not have forwards big enough. When they ran the ball, Bath struggled..


I was at that game, at Twickenham.
Craig Murdock, the Wigan scrum half, ran quite the length to score a cracking try.

Graeme West, the Wigan coach, played in the 2nd row, which is where he played as an RU player in his day.

The Wigan back row had Scott Quinnell at No 8, with Va'aiga Tuigamala as one of the flankers, Shem Tatupu the other, an all ex-RU back row.

The referee was from Leeds.
Back to Top
Camquin View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Location: Cambridge
Status: Offline
Points: 11453 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 2024 at 16:11
Didn't Andy Farrell play for Wigan?
What is he doing now? :-)
Sweeney Delenda Est
Back to Top
Stoatgobbler View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 29 Jan 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 477 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stoatgobbler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 2024 at 17:29
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

Didn't Andy Farrell play for Wigan?
What is he doing now? :-)


Captained the side that day and partnered West in the second row.

No idea what he's doing these days. Wink
Back to Top
SK 88 View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 08 Sep 2011
Location: Leicester
Status: Offline
Points: 601 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SK 88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2024 at 14:38
Originally posted by CJB1 CJB1 wrote:

Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

I seem to recall it was RU with uncontested scrums.
Not as I recall it.  Understandably Wigan struggled with fully contested scrums, and maybe Bath didn't put their full effort into it.  But back then even RL scrums were more of a competitive affair than nowadays, with the hookers actually striking for the ball.  It's really only in the last twenty years or so that RL scrums have become the farce that they are now.

It's on youtube.  The scrums were contested to begin with but Bath stopped about 20 minutes into the game from memory.  
Back to Top
Raider999 View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 18 Jan 2013
Location: Crawley
Status: Offline
Points: 4483 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2024 at 21:30
Originally posted by SK 88 SK 88 wrote:

Originally posted by CJB1 CJB1 wrote:

Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

I seem to recall it was RU with uncontested scrums.
Not as I recall it.  Understandably Wigan struggled with fully contested scrums, and maybe Bath didn't put their full effort into it.  But back then even RL scrums were more of a competitive affair than nowadays, with the hookers actually striking for the ball.  It's really only in the last twenty years or so that RL scrums have become the farce that they are now.


It's on youtube.  The scrums were contested to begin with but Bath stopped about 20 minutes into the game from memory.  


Watched both games, bit of a novelty factor - what it did show was there is a huge difference between top level RU and top level RL.

I joining at the lower levels might work but not anywhere near the top.
RAID ON
Back to Top
Camquin View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Location: Cambridge
Status: Offline
Points: 11453 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2024 at 23:21
I think there was a lot of difference.

But that was at the dawn of professionalism.
John Hall had only just bought Rob Andrew from Wasps and to build Newcastle.

Before rugby league coaches came to union and brought not only their defence skills, but also the strength and conditioning.

In fact, I suspect these games did a lot to put up the price of those coaches.

I am not sure there would be that difference today.
Sweeney Delenda Est
Back to Top
SK 88 View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 08 Sep 2011
Location: Leicester
Status: Offline
Points: 601 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SK 88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2024 at 10:27
Sale played St Helens about 10 years ago (maybe more like 15) years ago, I've a feeling that was closer.

Personally I think a united game would be a great thing on many levels off the field, it's just whether their could be a bridging of the egos involved to make it happen. There would need to be delicate public relations to make sure it was genuinely presented as a merger not an acquisition.

On the field I struggle a bit more as I like the mixed tempo, tactical kicking & scrums in union; while the continuous play, and tighter focus on the core skills, seems to be a key appeal to many league fans.
Back to Top
Stoatgobbler View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 29 Jan 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 477 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stoatgobbler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2024 at 13:48
It's a funny thing to note that each set of fans tend not to watch the other code as they both think that the other game too "stop-start".
Back to Top
Paul10 View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 24 Mar 2023
Location: Milton Keynes
Status: Offline
Points: 757 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2024 at 14:21
I used to watch rugby league but find there is so much union on telly nowadays that I'm not missing it.

For me they were noticeably different.



Edited by Paul10 - 30 Jan 2024 at 14:22
Back to Top
Greg View Drop Down
First XV regular
First XV regular


Joined: 30 Jan 2020
Location: Norfolk
Status: Offline
Points: 110 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2024 at 16:29
And, meanwhile, American Football gets more coverage each year and a growing interest at junior age groups. Tragic.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.04
Copyright ©2001-2021 Web Wiz Ltd.