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Championship clubs in shock over RFU’s decision |
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billesleyexile 
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Joined: 20 Jun 2013 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 1855 |
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 Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 14:59 |
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Agree, emotionally. But rationally, trying to look at it dispassionately, and despite it shafting more than few clubs (including my own), hard-headedly I can see why it makes sense... To be clear, I don't want it to happen, but if the future's going to be "the sport can only afford 12* full-time clubs** and everyone else should be amateur"* then at least now they've come out and said it in blunt, bald terms. Which leaves everyone to come to terms with it or get off the bus. Rather than the nudging and winking that's been going on (saying/avowing one thing and structurally doing another) since the game went pro. Again, and I'm saying this again because I don't want to be misinterpreted and have the rage of the forum coming down on my head, I don't agree with the proposals and neither do I support them, *but* I actually in a small way actually welcome knowing where I/my club stands for the first time since 1995 rather than only suspecting I knew. If the free gangway myth is now a free gangway delusion then so be it. I reserve my practical sympathy for the clubs who are now potentially staring at financial black holes next season because of contracts which are longer than the absurd notice period of the changes. The drawbridge is up, the dreams are probably over for most aspirant level 2 clubs (and those clubs temporarily "slumming it" in level 3 and below). In a funny sort of way, I almost feel relieved. *we can quibble about the numbers, but whether it's 12/14/16/18 doesn't materially matter if the answer either way isn't 24 or more. **whether one agrees with the truth of that or not (for the record I don't)
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keep the faith
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OldNick
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Joined: 20 May 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3414 |
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Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 14:31 |
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The last attempt by the RFU to remove funding of all tiers below the Premiership, and hand ver all professional rugby to their corrupt hands was about 3 years ago, when they attempted to pair Premiership teams with Championship clubs, changing the structure so that Championship clubs became subsidiaries- in much the way Hartpury chose to move. That restructuring was defeated in the RFU council leaving only the farcical provision of allowing ten dual registered players plus three loan players as a back door to subsidiarity. That route (unsurprisingly) having failed to persuade more than one Championship club to kneel before the Premiership pound, has now been replaced by the more brutal route. This time there is no restructuring offered to be voted out by the council. Instead the back door route of strangling the Championship clubs by removing funding. If, as it appears, there is no route for the council to reject this change, as it is not a structural change, just the administrative change if varying funding levels, there is only one way to deal with it. The RFU as an whole must come together to remove the executives of the RFU through an EGM and vote of no confidence.
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gerg_861
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Joined: 11 Jun 2017 Location: Ealing Status: Offline Points: 2547 |
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Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 14:18 |
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Indeed, I think that an important measure should be around homegrown players, and what happens with them. For example, my understanding is that Matt Cornish has played at Ealing man and boy, has 50+ appearances at age 22, and is being poached by Harlequins. My understanding is that Ealing has spent many hundred of thousands on their academy set up this year.
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373
British and Irish Lion 
Joined: 23 Jun 2016 Location: Norweb Status: Offline Points: 202 |
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Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 13:50 |
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Presumably, a % of EQP going into Premiership and beyond that going on to be capped by England. Something I will look at another time, but how many non-DR players have gone from the Championship to be capped in the time period they seem to be looking at? Cokanasiga jumps out as an example, but with £33 million (based on £550,000 per team for 5 years) spent, what is the actual cost to the RFU per player?
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FHLH
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Cambridge Joined: 19 Apr 2009 Location: Cambridge Status: Offline Points: 5265 |
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Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 13:31 |
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There is no requirement in the RFU rules to achieve a return on investment so to say that is b o l l o c k s
The RFU may be open to legal action through an interpretation of the current proposals in the details below. An alternative is a vote of No Confidence at a Special GM but trying to herd cats ......the problem is that this concerns the clubs at Levels 2-4 in the main - that's 60 clubs. 3 Objects 3.1 To encourage the Game, and its values, to flourish across England. 3.2 To grow the Game in England through the Union’s performance and values, namely teamwork, respect, enjoyment, discipline and sportsmanship. 3.3 To administer the Game as its governing body in England. 3.4 To promote the playing and administration of the Game in England in accordance with the Laws of the Game, the RFU Regulations and World Rugby Regulations. 3.5 To promote inclusivity and diversity within the Game. (at risk??) 3.6 To assist the development and playing of the Game throughout the world. 3.7 To provide, maintain and operate a national stadium or stadia. 3.8 To operate representative men’s and women’s teams
Player pathway ................................ the premiership clubs trawl of youth teams is cruel and will get worse with no stepping stones - it undermines to desire of those who are dropped from the relevant age squads - I speak from experience here. Let's all play American Football - USA sponsors are keen to move into Europe
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"My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts."
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373
British and Irish Lion
Joined: 23 Jun 2016 Location: Norweb Status: Offline Points: 202 |
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Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 13:31 |
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Fair point, didn’t include any academy graduates from any club (Quite a few had a number listed) only players signed from external sources.
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knightandday
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Doncaster Knights Joined: 21 May 2007 Location: Lincoln Status: Offline Points: 1763 |
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Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 13:22 |
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Doesn’t mention the 3 signings at Doncaster this year from the Academy we run. |
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Winning isn't everything, it just makes the beer taste better
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islander
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Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 12:53 |
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hmmm - hardly a reliable source
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Camquin
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Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 12:33 |
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Do we know what those objectives were?
Did the clubs set out a plan to meet them? Were Ealing, Coventry, Hartpury and Ampthill made aware of these objectives and the plan?
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Sweeney Delenda Est
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marigold
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Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 12:32 |
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The basis upon which French rugby is run ie whole towns getting behind local clubs, is totally different than the situation in England and could not be replicated here. Plang , I agree there is simply not enough money, or demand, for a fully professional second tier. The current situation also means players at levels 3,4 and below are overpaid with this money simply going out of the game each week instead of being spent on coaching, facilities and medical support. There has to be a huge financial rethink about the structure of rugby in this country. Somehow players have to re-educated about the none financial benefits of playing rugby which most of us who played before 1995 were satisfied with. Let the pro teams go their way and the 98% that is left go another. The RFU needs to use the money it gains from the pro game to breathe some life into the community game.
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Bill Sley
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Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 12:31 |
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“The decision taken in 2015 to increase Championship funding significantly was against a set of objectives and deliverables that we do not believe have been achieved.”
Irrespective of whether the decision to increase funding per club WAS set against objectives (I thought it was based on dividing the pie by 12 instead of 16/14, the Greene King sponsorship & a little bit from Sky) does anyone know what the objectives/deliverables were? |
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Bill Sley
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Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 12:27 |
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“The decision taken in 2015 to increase Championship funding significantly was against a set of objectives and deliverables that we do not believe have been achieved."
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Dobber
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Joined: 03 Nov 2009 Status: Offline Points: 217 |
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Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 12:23 |
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Meanwhile the England women's team is fully professional and Sarries will still be getting the parachute handed to them so that the inconvenience of relegation is not too rough on them and their promotion back up is guaranteed
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PlangentThrowback
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Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 12:18 |
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The Championship has been poorly run for years. The RFU is the main culprit with a lack of strategic
vision and an inability and unwillingness to adequately fund what it did finally
cobble together. The farcical situation
around sponsorship was a joke as is the almost non-existent media
presence. However I do not exonerate the
Championship itself which has also been poorly organised and done little to
help itself other than asking for more money instead of generating more itself. It has always been my contention that Rugby Union, as a
minority (even niche) sport has room for only a relatively small number of
fully professional clubs and maybe that’s the existing Premiership. The idea that the second tier ‘has’ to be
fully professional too has always seemed difficult to justify given the finances
of the game and the fact that hardly anyone goes to see it live or on the telly. The effort to maintain professionalism
recently saw LW go to the wall and probably should have seen Leedshire go the
same way except for some inexplicable (and now clearly misplaced) generosity
from the RFU. This proposed funding cut may well be down to a failure by
the Championship to deliver on specific targets but the financial state of the
RFU is certainly a big factor. Yes it
managed to make a profit last time out but it is likely to be making losses
again and any excuse will be taken to reduce expenditure. Perhaps, instead of angrily calling for moves
to Pro14 or some sort of protest, the Championship ought to be looking to come
under the umbrella of PRL. Sort out a shared
funding formula (including distributing the parachute payment amongst tier 2
clubs), bring the Championship under the Premiership media contracts, reformat
the Premiership A-league to allow them into the Championship or create a
sensible way for Premiership players to play in the Championship (avoiding a
Hartpury type situation), reform the way the academies operate so that all the
professional/semi-pro clubs can directly benefit and participate and maybe even have a cup competiton. After all if the French can manage the top
tiers of rugby under common control and make it work then we ought to be able
to do something similar. |
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Rabbie Burns
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Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 12:17 |
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I hate to say it but someone must. What will be the impact of Brexit on this (could also affect National leagues) once the new immigration rules are implemented
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So many Christians not enough Lions
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373
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Joined: 23 Jun 2016 Location: Norweb Status: Offline Points: 202 |
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Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 11:20 |
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It's worth having a look at where signings in the Championship have come from to look at the value the Championship as a development ground for EQP. This season, using wikipedia as a source saw 158 players signed for Championship teams (excluding DR's short loans etc). It was perhaps an exceptional year due to the turmoil at YC and it being a WC year meaning that Premiership squads were not 'trimmed' as much. Looking over the past 4 years may show different trends.
Of the 158 players signed, 93 (59%) were EQP with 65 (41%) being non-EQP (inc. other British Isles players.) 46 (29.11%) were players already playing in the Championship, 41 (25.95%) were players from Foreign clubs (inc. other British clubs, but excluding Cardiff Met Uni. which was treated as a lower league club) 40 players (25.32%) were signed from 'lower leagues' (inc. Uni sides & Army) and 31 players (19.62%) were players signed from Premiership sides. By club: Ampthill 9 players signed (5 EQP / 4 Foreign) 6 from Foreign clubs (66% club signings / accounted for 15% of Championship Foreign signings) 1 from Premiership side (11% club signings / 3% of Prem -> Championship signings) 2 from Championship Clubs (22% of club signings / 4.35% of Cham - Cham signings.) None from Lower Leagues Bedford 12 players signed (7 EQP / 5 Foreign) 1 from Foreign clubs (8% club signings / accounted for 2.44% of Championship Foreign signings) 4 from Premiership side (33% club signings / 13% of Prem -> Championship signings) 4 from Championship Clubs (33% of club signings / 8.7% of Cham - Cham signings.) 3 from Lower Leagues (25% of club signings / 7.5% of lower league signings to Championship) Cornish Pirates 14 players signed (5 EQP / 9 Foreign) 3 from Foreign clubs (21.5% club signings / accounted for 7.32% of Championship Foreign signings) 0 from Premiership side (0 club signings / 0 of Prem -> Championship signings) 9 from Championship Clubs (64% of club signings / 19.5% of Cham - Cham signings.) 2 from Lower Leagues (14% of club signings / 5% of lower league signings to Championship) Coventry 12 players signed (9 EQP / 3 Foreign) 2 from Foreign clubs (16.5% club signings / accounted for 4.88% of Championship Foreign signings) 5 from Premiership side (41.67% club signings / 16.13% of Prem -> Championship signings) 5 from Championship Clubs (41.67% of club signings / 10.87% of Cham - Cham signings.) 0 from Lower Leagues (0% of club signings / 0% of lower league signings to Championship) Doncaster 10 players signed (7 EQP / 3 Foreign) 2 from Foreign clubs (20% club signings / accounted for 4.88% of Championship Foreign signings) 1 from Premiership side (10% club signings / 3.23% of Prem -> Championship signings) 7 from Championship Clubs (70% of club signings / 15.22% of Cham - Cham signings.) 0 from Lower Leagues (0% of club signings / 0% of lower league signings to Championship) Ealing 18 players signed (12 EQP / 6 Foreign) 3 from Foreign clubs (16.5% club signings / accounted for 7.32% of Championship Foreign signings) 7 from Premiership side (39% club signings / 22.58% of Prem -> Championship signings) 3 from Championship Clubs (16.67% of club signings / 6.52% of Cham - Cham signings.) 5 from Lower Leagues (27.78% of club signings / 12.5% of lower league signings to Championship) Hartpury 9 players signed (8 EQP / 1 Foreign) 0 from Foreign clubs 1 from Premiership side (11% club signings / 3.23% of Prem -> Championship signings) 5 from Championship Clubs (55.56% of club signings / 10.87% of Cham - Cham signings.) 3 from Lower Leagues (33% of club signings / 7.5% of lower league signings to Championship) Jersey 14 players signed (5 EQP / 9 Foreign) 8 from Foreign clubs (57% club signings / accounted for 19.5% of Championship Foreign signings) 1 from Premiership side (7.14% club signings / 3.23% of Prem -> Championship signings) 2 from Championship Clubs (14.29% of club signings / 4.35% of Cham - Cham signings.) 3 from Lower Leagues (21% of club signings / 7.5% of lower league signings to Championship) London Scottish 15 players signed (7 EQP / 8 Foreign) 7 from Foreign clubs (46.6% club signings / accounted for 17.07% of Championship Foreign signings) 0 from Premiership side 2 from Championship Clubs (13.33% of club signings / 4.35% of Cham - Cham signings.) 6 from Lower Leagues (40% of club signings / 15% of lower league signings to Championship) Newcastle 11 players signed (6 EQP / 5 Foreign) 2 from Foreign clubs (18% club signings / accounted for 4.8% of Championship Foreign signings) 5 from Premiership side (45% club signings / 16% of Prem -> Championship signings) 3 from Championship Clubs (27% of club signings / 6.52% of Cham - Cham signings.) 1 from Lower Leagues (9% of club signings / 2.5% of lower league signings to Championship) Nottingham 12 players signed (7 EQP / 5 Foreign) 1 from Foreign clubs (8.3% club signings / accounted for 2.44% of Championship Foreign signings) 3 from Premiership side (25% club signings / 9.68% of Prem -> Championship signings) 4 from Championship Clubs (33% of club signings / 8.7% of Cham - Cham signings.) 4 from Lower Leagues (33% of club signings / 10% of lower league signings to Championship) Yorkshire 22 players signed (15 EQP / 7 Foreign) 6 from Foreign clubs (27% club signings / accounted for 14.63% of Championship Foreign signings) 3 from Premiership side (13.64% club signings / 9.68% of Prem -> Championship signings) 0 from Championship 13 from Lower Leagues (59% of club signings / 32% of lower league signings to Championship) Overall, the question is if the Championship funding is actually resulting in a better standard of English Rugby and providing a pathway from the grassroots to the professional game. From this seasons signings, I'd suggest that it really isn't. Seems a very short-term focused league. There's a lot of churn of players already at that level moving from club to club and it seems that teams aren't willing to take a punt on developing players outside of DR's, as shown by the lack of signings from clubs further down (most ll players come from clubs with previous Championship pedigree - Richmond, Esher, Rotherham etc.) In some ways a funding cut might encourage teams to actually look to develop players rather than sign non-EQP and journeymen players. Changing how the funding is allocated may help (i.e. coaches employed by the RFU 'leased' to teams). There does need to be an emphasis on less splashing of the cash though. |
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Toulouse
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Joined: 25 Oct 2014 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 126 |
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Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 10:57 |
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Just thought, how are Leeds going to pay off their £6million debt now?????
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Toulouse
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Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 10:55 |
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I agree, the RFU are not fit for purpose and seems to be run by a bunch of no hopers....RFU...........REALLY F&%KING USELESS
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Stalwart
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Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 10:46 |
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RFU are going to kill off rugby if they go down this road. Pathetic.
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Toulouse
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Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 10:34 |
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Bill Sweeney, RFU CEO said: “This is a decision based on a principle of ensuring levels of investment are geared to a clear return on investment. There are many worthy requirements from both the professional and community game and we need to make sure that every pound spent is clearly justified. The decision we have made is connected to a wider review of strategic objectives and resource allocation.
“The decision taken in 2015 to increase Championship funding significantly was against a set of objectives and deliverables that we do not believe have been achieved. “Ultimately the difference in the levels of funding between the current agreement and our new commitment will not be the deciding factor for clubs with aspirations for promotion and will always require additional investment. The gateway is still open for clubs to get into the Premiership if they have the necessary financial resources and meet the minimum standards required. What a joke! The last paragraph speaks volumes..... if you are a rich club with sugar daddies with deep pockets you can get into the premiership! Looks like teams such at Nottingham, Amptill, Doncaster, Bedford, Cornish Pirates are doomed. Most clubs in the Championship have financial commitments such as players contracts that they will not be able to honour and could end up like Leeds, broke..... The Championship will be made up of teams from the southeast, rich financially but so detached from the real world that so many country wide clubs have to live in. The whole game is in such a mess and requires total and utter reorganisation with or without the RFU. The RFU have shown how ineffectual they are at dealing with any problems as they arise, look and the Leeds mess they created, they kowtow to the Premiership and are just inept.... How long before Premiership ring fencing is agreed and the Premiership becomes just a money spinning show league?
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OldNick wrote: