National League Rugby Discussion Forum Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > League Rugby - www.leaguerugby.co.uk > The Championship
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Championship clubs in shock over RFU’s decision
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

IMPORTANT Remember to read the rules of the board and abide by them when posting.

Championship clubs in shock over RFU’s decision

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234 19>
Author
Message
Cricks at 2 View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 08 Dec 2015
Location: Bedford
Status: Offline
Points: 535
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cricks at 2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 08:27
Originally posted by Count Ford Count Ford wrote:

It hardly helps the championship when you get people like Toby Flood coming out with this. It really does make me hope someone turns over Newcastle this season. He seems to think he's a bit above it and people are just there for a bit of fun.

t's probably what the RFU think about it...since it doesn't make millions of pounds for them to mismanage.


Flood adds a totally subjective, unsupported comment. “There's no-one at the bottom of rucks after your eyeballs but there is a bit of a desire to hit and hurt in the air. That's definitely there.”  That is shameful.  He neck rolled Dan Temm and took another blues player out with an illegal (and televised) tackle, for which he received a one match ban.
Back to Top
Cricks at 2 View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 08 Dec 2015
Location: Bedford
Status: Offline
Points: 535
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cricks at 2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 08:34
A bunch (30) of us sponsor Dan Temm at Bedford and they are suggesting some form of protest.  Any ideas?  Turn up at HQ, petition, I really don’t know.  We need to do something?
Back to Top
Jerorky View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 16 Feb 2013
Location: Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 323
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jerorky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 09:45
I my be naive but....I'm in favour of trying to get more local player development through the Championship but, if this is one of the reasons for pulling the plug, the RFU are being hypocritical. Is it time to organise protests at and a boycott of the so-called Internationals which now have semi-national teams? If it worked, being hit in the pocket might cause a re-think. 

Back to Top
DICKON View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 27 May 2009
Location: Roehampton
Status: Offline
Points: 897
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DICKON Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 09:49
So now the full impact of the RFU's massive financial overspend is writ large for all to see, along with how they intend to tackle it; the Grassroots game will begin at Level 2. Over the past few seasons we have seen prize money removed for all grassroots Cups, travel subsistence halved, and now the Championship funding halved, then reduced to nothing in the near future (and someone justify why Saracens should not be given the same funding as the rest of the Championship clubs next season?). The ACR will save the RFU substantial further funds in reducing travel subsistence further (don't tell me this is to do with Player Welfare otherwise why would the RFU reduce the season by 4 games, then propose Cups and Play Offs to fill up the spare weeks?) If we want something to change, we need to change the folks making these decisions, and replace them with folks who know how to grow the game across all elements (m/f, all levels, all ages).
Back to Top
corporalcarrot View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 22 Sep 2013
Location: St Brelade
Status: Offline
Points: 4724
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote corporalcarrot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 10:20
It is interesting to consider where the gap would be funded. For the deep pocket clubs probably no impact at all. For the rest in monetary terms it probably amounts to £300,000 per annum. For a club like Jersey a £10 increase on a match day ticket assuming gates of just over 1,000 might bring in £100K-150K. With a playing squad of 30-35 plus coaches etc giving a total of around 40 a £5K average cut in salaries might bring in £200K. Part time contracts and semi-pro may be the way forward.
Dont kick it. Pick it up and GO FORWARD.
Back to Top
gerg_861 View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 11 Jun 2017
Location: Ealing
Status: Online
Points: 2522
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gerg_861 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 10:30
Originally posted by Richard Lowther Richard Lowther wrote:

The devaluing of the Championship and the reduction in RFU monies throughout the league pyramid could (and I stress could) be the first stage towards having some sanity back into the semi-pro game.

Championship clubs will still be amongst the highest wage payers of all clubs outside of the Premiership and they should still attract the better or more ambitious players. The only alternatives are clubs who have sugar daddies but will the devaluing of the Championship and the move towards a ring-fenced Premiership or a British/Irish League remove the incentive of people to invest into the game? This is the more worrying aspect for me. If a club currently relies on a sugar daddy who decides he has had enough and walks away, what happens to the club?  Will they disappear or drop down to a level more appropriate to their new found status?

The top players will always rise to the top of the game and be picked up by Premiership clubs.

What worries me more is the probable consolidation of (more) power to the Premiership clubs and a rise in Status of the 'A' league. All clubs should be fighting against this and this campaign should be led by the RFU who are in danger of losing the plot totally.


I completely agree with your worries. I don't really like the whole concept of the A league, and the fact that there are so many players seemingly 'hoarded' that they don't get game time. Costs throughout the leagues would be lower without that, and more players would get developed if they'd play more games. But A league has no consequences. Who really would go watch that?

 I'd be very interested to see if there are cuts to the RFU payments to the PRL as well in the next settlement - my gut feeling would be yes. This is based on the positioning that they've done with their press releases and the cuts at lower levels.


Edited by gerg_861 - 12 Feb 2020 at 11:16
Back to Top
Toulouse View Drop Down
First XV regular
First XV regular
Avatar

Joined: 25 Oct 2014
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 126
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Toulouse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 10:34
Bill Sweeney, RFU CEO said: “This is a decision based on a principle of ensuring levels of investment are geared to a clear return on investment. There are many worthy requirements from both the professional and community game and we need to make sure that every pound spent is clearly justified. The decision we have made is connected to a wider review of strategic objectives and resource allocation.

“The decision taken in 2015 to increase Championship funding significantly was against a set of objectives and deliverables that we do not believe have been achieved. 

 “Ultimately the difference in the levels of funding between the current agreement and our new commitment will not be the deciding factor for clubs with aspirations for promotion and will always require additional investment. The gateway is still open for clubs to get into the Premiership if they have the necessary financial resources and meet the minimum standards required.

What a joke! The last paragraph speaks volumes..... if you are a rich club with sugar daddies with deep pockets you can get into the premiership! Looks like teams such at Nottingham, Amptill, Doncaster, Bedford, Cornish Pirates are doomed. Most clubs in the Championship have financial commitments such as players contracts that they will not be able to honour and could end up like Leeds, broke.....
The Championship will be made up of teams from the southeast, rich financially but so detached from the real world that so many country wide clubs have to live in.
The whole game is in such a mess and requires total and utter reorganisation with or without the RFU. The RFU have shown how ineffectual they are at dealing with any problems as they arise, look and the Leeds mess they created, they kowtow to the Premiership and are just inept....
How long before Premiership ring fencing is agreed and the Premiership becomes just a money spinning show league?
Back to Top
Stalwart View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 22 Nov 2011
Location: Penzance
Status: Offline
Points: 2146
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stalwart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 10:46
RFU are going to kill off rugby if they go down this road. Pathetic.
Back to Top
Toulouse View Drop Down
First XV regular
First XV regular
Avatar

Joined: 25 Oct 2014
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 126
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Toulouse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 10:55
I agree, the RFU are not fit for purpose and seems to be run by a bunch of no hopers....RFU...........REALLY F&%KING USELESS
Back to Top
Toulouse View Drop Down
First XV regular
First XV regular
Avatar

Joined: 25 Oct 2014
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 126
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Toulouse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 10:57
Just thought, how are Leeds going to pay off their £6million debt now?????
Back to Top
373 View Drop Down
British and Irish Lion
British and Irish Lion


Joined: 23 Jun 2016
Location: Norweb
Status: Offline
Points: 202
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 373 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 11:20
It's worth having a look at where signings in the Championship have come from to look at the value the Championship as a development ground for EQP. This season, using wikipedia as a source saw 158 players signed for Championship teams (excluding DR's short loans etc). It was perhaps an exceptional year due to the turmoil at YC and it being a WC year meaning that Premiership squads were not 'trimmed' as much. Looking over the past 4 years may show different trends.

Of the 158 players signed, 93 (59%) were EQP with 65 (41%)  being non-EQP (inc. other British Isles players.)

46 (29.11%) were players already playing in the Championship, 41 (25.95%) were players from Foreign clubs (inc. other British clubs, but excluding Cardiff Met Uni. which was treated as a lower league club) 40 players (25.32%) were signed from 'lower leagues' (inc. Uni sides & Army) and 31 players  (19.62%) were players signed from Premiership sides.

By club:

Ampthill
9 players signed (5 EQP / 4 Foreign)
6 from Foreign clubs (66% club signings / accounted for 15% of Championship Foreign signings)
1 from Premiership side (11% club signings / 3% of Prem -> Championship signings)
2 from Championship Clubs (22% of club signings / 4.35% of Cham - Cham signings.) 
None from Lower Leagues

Bedford
12 players signed (7 EQP / 5 Foreign)
1 from Foreign clubs (8% club signings / accounted for 2.44% of Championship Foreign signings)
4 from Premiership side (33% club signings / 13% of Prem -> Championship signings)
4 from Championship Clubs (33% of club signings / 8.7% of Cham - Cham signings.) 
3 from Lower Leagues (25% of club signings / 7.5% of lower league signings to Championship)

Cornish Pirates
14 players signed (5 EQP / 9 Foreign)
3 from Foreign clubs (21.5% club signings / accounted for 7.32% of Championship Foreign signings)
0 from Premiership side (0 club signings / 0 of Prem -> Championship signings)
9 from Championship Clubs (64% of club signings / 19.5% of Cham - Cham signings.) 
2 from Lower Leagues (14% of club signings / 5% of lower league signings to Championship)

Coventry
12 players signed (9 EQP / 3 Foreign)
2 from Foreign clubs (16.5% club signings / accounted for 4.88% of Championship Foreign signings)
5 from Premiership side (41.67% club signings / 16.13% of Prem -> Championship signings)
5 from Championship Clubs (41.67% of club signings / 10.87% of Cham - Cham signings.) 
0 from Lower Leagues (0% of club signings / 0% of lower league signings to Championship)

Doncaster
10 players signed (7 EQP / 3 Foreign)
2 from Foreign clubs (20% club signings / accounted for 4.88% of Championship Foreign signings)
1 from Premiership side (10% club signings / 3.23% of Prem -> Championship signings)
7 from Championship Clubs (70% of club signings / 15.22% of Cham - Cham signings.) 
0 from Lower Leagues (0% of club signings / 0% of lower league signings to Championship)

Ealing
18 players signed (12 EQP / 6 Foreign)
3 from Foreign clubs (16.5% club signings / accounted for 7.32% of Championship Foreign signings)
7 from Premiership side (39% club signings / 22.58% of Prem -> Championship signings)
3 from Championship Clubs (16.67% of club signings / 6.52% of Cham - Cham signings.) 
5 from Lower Leagues (27.78% of club signings / 12.5% of lower league signings to Championship)

Hartpury
9 players signed (8 EQP / 1 Foreign)
0 from Foreign clubs 
1 from Premiership side (11% club signings / 3.23% of Prem -> Championship signings)
5 from Championship Clubs (55.56% of club signings / 10.87% of Cham - Cham signings.) 
3 from Lower Leagues (33% of club signings / 7.5% of lower league signings to Championship)

Jersey
14 players signed (5 EQP / 9 Foreign)
8 from Foreign clubs (57% club signings / accounted for 19.5% of Championship Foreign signings)
1 from Premiership side (7.14% club signings / 3.23% of Prem -> Championship signings)
2 from Championship Clubs (14.29% of club signings / 4.35% of Cham - Cham signings.) 
3 from Lower Leagues (21% of club signings / 7.5% of lower league signings to Championship)

London Scottish
15 players signed (7 EQP / 8 Foreign)
7 from Foreign clubs (46.6% club signings / accounted for 17.07% of Championship Foreign signings)
0 from Premiership side
2 from Championship Clubs (13.33% of club signings / 4.35% of Cham - Cham signings.) 
6 from Lower Leagues (40% of club signings / 15% of lower league signings to Championship)

Newcastle
11 players signed (6 EQP / 5 Foreign)
2 from Foreign clubs (18% club signings / accounted for 4.8% of Championship Foreign signings)
5 from Premiership side (45% club signings / 16% of Prem -> Championship signings)
3 from Championship Clubs (27% of club signings / 6.52% of Cham - Cham signings.) 
1 from Lower Leagues (9% of club signings / 2.5% of lower league signings to Championship)

Nottingham
12 players signed (7 EQP / 5 Foreign)
1 from Foreign clubs (8.3% club signings / accounted for 2.44% of Championship Foreign signings)
3 from Premiership side (25% club signings / 9.68% of Prem -> Championship signings)
4 from Championship Clubs (33% of club signings / 8.7% of Cham - Cham signings.) 
4 from Lower Leagues (33% of club signings / 10% of lower league signings to Championship)

Yorkshire
22 players signed (15 EQP / 7 Foreign)
6 from Foreign clubs (27% club signings / accounted for 14.63% of Championship Foreign signings)
3 from Premiership side (13.64% club signings / 9.68% of Prem -> Championship signings)
0 from Championship
13 from Lower Leagues (59% of club signings / 32% of lower league signings to Championship)

Overall, the question is if the Championship funding is actually resulting in a better standard of English Rugby and providing a pathway from the grassroots to the professional game. From this seasons signings, I'd suggest that it really isn't. Seems a very short-term focused league. There's a lot of churn of players already at that level moving from club to club and it seems that teams aren't willing to take a punt on developing players outside of DR's, as shown by the lack of signings from clubs further down (most ll players come from clubs with previous Championship pedigree - Richmond, Esher, Rotherham etc.) In some ways a funding cut might encourage teams to actually look to develop players rather than sign non-EQP and journeymen players. Changing how the funding is allocated may help (i.e. coaches employed by the RFU 'leased' to teams). There does need to be an emphasis on less splashing of the cash though.


Back to Top
Rabbie Burns View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 18 Jul 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3322
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rabbie Burns Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 12:17
I hate to say it but someone must. What will be the impact of Brexit on this (could also affect National leagues) once the new immigration rules are implemented
So many Christians not enough Lions
Back to Top
PlangentThrowback View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 07 Feb 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 1265
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PlangentThrowback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 12:18

The Championship has been poorly run for years.  The RFU is the main culprit with a lack of strategic vision and an inability and unwillingness to adequately fund what it did finally cobble together.  The farcical situation around sponsorship was a joke as is the almost non-existent media presence.  However I do not exonerate the Championship itself which has also been poorly organised and done little to help itself other than asking for more money instead of generating more itself.

It has always been my contention that Rugby Union, as a minority (even niche) sport has room for only a relatively small number of fully professional clubs and maybe that’s the existing Premiership.  The idea that the second tier ‘has’ to be fully professional too has always seemed difficult to justify given the finances of the game and the fact that hardly anyone goes to see it live or on the telly.  The effort to maintain professionalism recently saw LW go to the wall and probably should have seen Leedshire go the same way except for some inexplicable (and now clearly misplaced) generosity from the RFU. 

This proposed funding cut may well be down to a failure by the Championship to deliver on specific targets but the financial state of the RFU is certainly a big factor.  Yes it managed to make a profit last time out but it is likely to be making losses again and any excuse will be taken to reduce expenditure.  Perhaps, instead of angrily calling for moves to Pro14 or some sort of protest, the Championship ought to be looking to come under the umbrella of PRL.  Sort out a shared funding formula (including distributing the parachute payment amongst tier 2 clubs), bring the Championship under the Premiership media contracts, reformat the Premiership A-league to allow them into the Championship or create a sensible way for Premiership players to play in the Championship (avoiding a Hartpury type situation), reform the way the academies operate so that all the professional/semi-pro clubs can directly benefit and participate and maybe even have a cup competiton.  After all if the French can manage the top tiers of rugby under common control and make it work then we ought to be able to do something similar.

Back to Top
Dobber View Drop Down
British and Irish Lion
British and Irish Lion


Joined: 03 Nov 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 217
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dobber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 12:23
Originally posted by Toulouse Toulouse wrote:

I agree, the RFU are not fit for purpose and seems to be run by a bunch of no hopers....RFU...........REALLY F&%KING USELESS
...now what was it Will Carling said all those years back....

Meanwhile the England women's team is fully professional and Sarries will still be getting the parachute handed to them so that the inconvenience of relegation is not too rough on them and their promotion back up is guaranteed 
Back to Top
Bill Sley View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 14 Jul 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 2383
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Sley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 12:27
“The decision taken in 2015 to increase Championship funding significantly was against a set of objectives and deliverables that we do not believe have been achieved."
Back to Top
Bill Sley View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 14 Jul 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 2383
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Sley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 12:31
“The decision taken in 2015 to increase Championship funding significantly was against a set of objectives and deliverables that we do not believe have been achieved.”

Irrespective of whether the decision to increase funding per club WAS set against objectives (I thought it was based on dividing the pie by 12 instead of 16/14, the Greene King sponsorship & a little bit from Sky) does anyone know what the objectives/deliverables were?
Back to Top
marigold View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 09 Apr 2019
Location: Eltham
Status: Offline
Points: 430
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote marigold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 12:32
The basis upon which French rugby is run ie whole towns getting behind local clubs, is totally different than the situation in England and could not be replicated here. Plang , I agree there is simply not enough money, or demand, for a fully professional second tier. The current situation also means players at levels 3,4 and below are overpaid with this money simply going out of the game each week instead of being spent on coaching, facilities and medical support. There has to be a huge financial rethink about the structure of rugby in this country. Somehow players have to re-educated about the none financial benefits of playing rugby which most of us who played before 1995 were satisfied with. Let the pro teams go their way and the 98% that is left go another. The RFU needs to use the money it gains from the pro game to breathe some life into the community game.
Back to Top
Camquin View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Location: Cambridge
Status: Offline
Points: 11120
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 12:33
Do we know what those objectives were?
Did the clubs set out a plan to meet them?
Were Ealing, Coventry, Hartpury and Ampthill  made aware of these objectives and the plan?
Sweeney Delenda Est
Back to Top
islander View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 17 Mar 2010
Location: jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 7324
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote islander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 12:53
Originally posted by 373 373 wrote:

using wikipedia as a source 


hmmm - hardly a reliable source
Back to Top
knightandday View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar
Doncaster Knights

Joined: 21 May 2007
Location: Lincoln
Status: Offline
Points: 1762
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote knightandday Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 13:22
Originally posted by islander islander wrote:

Originally posted by 373 373 wrote:

using wikipedia as a source 


hmmm - hardly a reliable source

Doesn’t mention the 3 signings at Doncaster this year from the Academy we run. 

Winning isn't everything, it just makes the beer taste better
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234 19>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.04
Copyright ©2001-2021 Web Wiz Ltd.