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Championship clubs in shock over RFU’s decision |
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373 
British and Irish Lion 
Joined: 23 Jun 2016 Location: Norweb Status: Offline Points: 202 |
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 Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 13:31 |
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Fair point, didn’t include any academy graduates from any club (Quite a few had a number listed) only players signed from external sources.
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FHLH
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Cambridge Joined: 19 Apr 2009 Location: Cambridge Status: Offline Points: 5239 |
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Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 13:31 |
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There is no requirement in the RFU rules to achieve a return on investment so to say that is b o l l o c k s
The RFU may be open to legal action through an interpretation of the current proposals in the details below. An alternative is a vote of No Confidence at a Special GM but trying to herd cats ......the problem is that this concerns the clubs at Levels 2-4 in the main - that's 60 clubs. 3 Objects 3.1 To encourage the Game, and its values, to flourish across England. 3.2 To grow the Game in England through the Union’s performance and values, namely teamwork, respect, enjoyment, discipline and sportsmanship. 3.3 To administer the Game as its governing body in England. 3.4 To promote the playing and administration of the Game in England in accordance with the Laws of the Game, the RFU Regulations and World Rugby Regulations. 3.5 To promote inclusivity and diversity within the Game. (at risk??) 3.6 To assist the development and playing of the Game throughout the world. 3.7 To provide, maintain and operate a national stadium or stadia. 3.8 To operate representative men’s and women’s teams
Player pathway ................................ the premiership clubs trawl of youth teams is cruel and will get worse with no stepping stones - it undermines to desire of those who are dropped from the relevant age squads - I speak from experience here. Let's all play American Football - USA sponsors are keen to move into Europe
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"My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts."
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373
British and Irish Lion
Joined: 23 Jun 2016 Location: Norweb Status: Offline Points: 202 |
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Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 13:50 |
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Presumably, a % of EQP going into Premiership and beyond that going on to be capped by England. Something I will look at another time, but how many non-DR players have gone from the Championship to be capped in the time period they seem to be looking at? Cokanasiga jumps out as an example, but with £33 million (based on £550,000 per team for 5 years) spent, what is the actual cost to the RFU per player?
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gerg_861
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Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 14:18 |
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Indeed, I think that an important measure should be around homegrown players, and what happens with them. For example, my understanding is that Matt Cornish has played at Ealing man and boy, has 50+ appearances at age 22, and is being poached by Harlequins. My understanding is that Ealing has spent many hundred of thousands on their academy set up this year.
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OldNick
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Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 14:31 |
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The last attempt by the RFU to remove funding of all tiers below the Premiership, and hand ver all professional rugby to their corrupt hands was about 3 years ago, when they attempted to pair Premiership teams with Championship clubs, changing the structure so that Championship clubs became subsidiaries- in much the way Hartpury chose to move. That restructuring was defeated in the RFU council leaving only the farcical provision of allowing ten dual registered players plus three loan players as a back door to subsidiarity. That route (unsurprisingly) having failed to persuade more than one Championship club to kneel before the Premiership pound, has now been replaced by the more brutal route. This time there is no restructuring offered to be voted out by the council. Instead the back door route of strangling the Championship clubs by removing funding. If, as it appears, there is no route for the council to reject this change, as it is not a structural change, just the administrative change if varying funding levels, there is only one way to deal with it. The RFU as an whole must come together to remove the executives of the RFU through an EGM and vote of no confidence.
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billesleyexile
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Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 14:59 |
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Agree, emotionally. But rationally, trying to look at it dispassionately, and despite it shafting more than few clubs (including my own), hard-headedly I can see why it makes sense... To be clear, I don't want it to happen, but if the future's going to be "the sport can only afford 12* full-time clubs** and everyone else should be amateur"* then at least now they've come out and said it in blunt, bald terms. Which leaves everyone to come to terms with it or get off the bus. Rather than the nudging and winking that's been going on (saying/avowing one thing and structurally doing another) since the game went pro. Again, and I'm saying this again because I don't want to be misinterpreted and have the rage of the forum coming down on my head, I don't agree with the proposals and neither do I support them, *but* I actually in a small way actually welcome knowing where I/my club stands for the first time since 1995 rather than only suspecting I knew. If the free gangway myth is now a free gangway delusion then so be it. I reserve my practical sympathy for the clubs who are now potentially staring at financial black holes next season because of contracts which are longer than the absurd notice period of the changes. The drawbridge is up, the dreams are probably over for most aspirant level 2 clubs (and those clubs temporarily "slumming it" in level 3 and below). In a funny sort of way, I almost feel relieved. *we can quibble about the numbers, but whether it's 12/14/16/18 doesn't materially matter if the answer either way isn't 24 or more. **whether one agrees with the truth of that or not (for the record I don't)
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keep the faith
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Brizzer
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Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 14:59 |
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373 I'm afraid that presumably doesn't cut the mustard. If there are genuine objectives, what are they. From the people that I have spoken to these objectives have NEVER been brought up by Melville or his replacement since the 2015 WC at the club meetings. You would have thought that there would be a 'woop woop guys, more money, but this is what they want for it', but no. Nothing. So who will suffer? Well the players 100%. Those who play well at level 2 and realistically can't get into level 1 will be looking forward to either the sack or a pay cut. The clubs who have already put all/most/some of their playing staff for next season together with contracts signed. Some of which will be for longer than 1 year....this may hurt. The fans. Standards will ultimately drop, but entrance fees won't. Who may win? The RFU who will be a few million pounds better off. The Premiership clubs, who will probably be picking up those few million quid. Saracens who will still be getting their £4.5m parachute payment. Those players who Saracens pick up next season. The semi-pro team that is promoted from Nat 1 next season. They are likely to hit the ground running as the Champ tries to re-organise themselves....this is not the Nat 1 clubs fault mind you, but they may benefit nevertheless. The Championship clubs academy players, who may find themselves catapulted into the 1st XV squads. this could also work against them though as the physicality and standard will also increase. I am not totally surprised by this announcement, but I am surprised that there has been no warning to the clubs that this might be coming. To say that it is underhand by the RFU is an understatement and I would guess that other factors must be driving this ridiculous decision. |
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Thatbloke
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Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 15:19 |
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Let's not pomegranite foot around - all the money saved by these cuts will be heading straight into the elite level kitty either to Premiership clubs, most of whom can't manage their resources as it is, or for Eddie Jones to to hire a whole host of extra coaches to sort out England's problems (a Shoe-lace tieing coach, how not to bother chasing box kick coach, how to prolong the setting of a scrum Coach and of course a Teach yourself how to play out of position coach)
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JonDee
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Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 15:25 |
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Didn't include the 7 signings from Notts Trent Uni through the partnership agreement or the fact that of the previous Uni lads 4 have signed full contracts |
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gerg_861
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Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 15:30 |
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Pirates fired a broadside back at the RFU
(coventry also involved, but the broadside thing works better with Pirates). The document is worth a read as well, and shows how professionally the championship clubs tried to engage. Also, my daughter is on page 4 to my surprise at the ET Winter wonderland event.
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gerg_861
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Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 15:59 |
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the money from PRL a payoff to end the playoffs? Can we at least bring those back now?
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OldNick
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Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 16:12 |
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Hardly just a case of ‘CoventrY also involved’. This is a joint statement, also backed in the proposal included with it by Ealing Trailfinders and London Scottish. https://www.coventryrugby.co.uk/2020/02/12/statement-on-behalf-of-coventry-rugby-and-cornish-pirates/ https://cornish-pirates.com/general-news/statement-on-behalf-of-cornish-pirates-and-coventry-rugby/ Linked in the article is a proposed structure prepared by CoventrY and Cornish Pirates, and submitted by them, Ealing Trailfinders, and London Scottish which they have supplied to the RFU but not been permitted to present... https://www.coventryrugby.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/RFU-Championship-Blueprint-v4-06-02-20.pdf Edited by OldNick - 12 Feb 2020 at 16:14 |
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gerg_861
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Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 16:15 |
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Hi old Nick - absolutely. I was just more focused on the pun with Pirates and broadside. To my shame, the desire for a good dad joke overcame the imperative to convey information accurately.
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373
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Joined: 23 Jun 2016 Location: Norweb Status: Offline Points: 202 |
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Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 16:18 |
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It does seem that it has been a fairly recent decision, but, it seems to really focus on the fact that the putting money into the Championship isn't creating a sustainable return on investment. Indeed, that was the main point of the statement put out by the RFU: 'This is a decision based on a principle of ensuring levels of investment are geared to a clear return on investment. There are many worthy requirements from both the professional and community game and we need to make sure that every pound spent is clearly justified. The decision we have made is connected to a wider review of strategic objectives and resource allocation.' "The Championship is, and will continue to be, a useful way for players to get additional developmental experience, but we do not believe it is the primary place where Premiership and England players are discovered and developed.” There are a wide range of cuts across the game - academies won't be taking u13's next season and junior county teams are also disappearing. The RFU, rightly or wrongly, seem to be changing course on how they approach player development and are looking for clear RoI. In that 5 year period, I make it 5 players that have come from the from being fully registered Championship players to play for England (Paul Hill, Ellis Genge, Joe Cokansiga,Piers Francis, Alec Hepburn). It's cost the RFU just over £6.5 million each in payments to Championship clubs. It isn't sustainable.
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billesleyexile
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Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 16:22 |
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Interesting document - obviously it would be for discussion/consultation but there are a few items in there that smack of (as usual) Championship clubs behaving like the Premiership cartel they're so critical of. The big one that stands out for me like an enormous flashing red light is "minimum salary in line with the National Minimum Wage". Over a squad of 40 at 17k each (to keep the maths easy - it's actually over 17k), that's a wage bill of £680k per year or you're not allowed to be in the league. This one season after a club with an amateur model only went down because of shenanigans elsewhere. £680k on player wages before you spend anything on anything else is obviously more doable than trying to match premiership spending, but it's still a big F off to the average club in N1.... |
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Dobber
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Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 16:36 |
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Q. Is the parachute payment REALLY £4.5M?? As for the comment on the Championship by Bill Sweeney..... .... I agree Bill. The primary source is by tweaking residency rules for S.Hemisphere players and an in-depth analysis of genealogy charts to find links to great-grandparents they didn't know they had...
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ballbag
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Joined: 03 May 2018 Location: Doncaster Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 16:54 |
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What's wrong about what Flood said in there? Ignore the bit about the hit and hurt in the air - that's subjective - but when he talks about having more time on the ball to make decisions than you would have playing international rugby then he's not wrong is he? Or do you think the Championship is of a similar standard to the Six Nations?
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billesleyexile
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Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 16:58 |
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***stirs dim memories of when Welsh were bouncing up and down*** isn't it dependent on whether you own both A and B shares, and then gradated on how long you've been up? Basically Saracens would cop for the maximum either way. Whether you *should* get it if you've been relegated through points deductions for misbehaviour is another question again, but AIUI that isn't actually written into the rules so is irrelevant.
Edited by billesleyexile - 12 Feb 2020 at 16:59 |
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Albionlass
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Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 17:14 |
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So why don't all the Championship spokesmen approach RFU for salary cap now . Saracens would not keep to it and get relegated or a heavy fine with points deduction .
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Lifes a journey . Never a race .
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Count Ford
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Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 17:44 |
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It was the two quotes which showed his derisory attitude to the league. One about people going out to injure the big team and the other about it being just a bit of fun with your mates. If this is how senior players see it, it's no surprise the RFU don't care much about it much.
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knightandday wrote: