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Camquin 
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Joined: 01 Jun 2007 Location: Cambridge Status: Offline Points: 11121 |
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 Posted: 28 Dec 2020 at 23:08 |
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This is only an illustration if the changes took place now. The changes require four down from Nat 1 and two up to make a 14 team National 1. In which case you would have gone down. But it will not happen for another season, so you get a chance of survival next season. |
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Sweeney Delenda Est
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Halliford
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Joined: 17 Feb 2010 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4146 |
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Posted: 28 Dec 2020 at 23:47 |
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Probably very similar to the Leagues I suggested about a year ago on a similar thread! I think this supports my argument for the Leagues to be based around the Motorway network. 3 Leagues removes the Divisions from the equation and the mileage should be balanced with ease of travel. Canterbury are arguably as much of an outlier as are Redruth and even Worthing isn’t a quick journey. Esher could go either East or West, we have better access to the M4 and M40 than the M1.
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Camquin
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Joined: 01 Jun 2007 Location: Cambridge Status: Offline Points: 11121 |
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Posted: 29 Dec 2020 at 00:55 |
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I am not sure the divisions survive - or perhaps there should be three new conferences and 24 new CBs with eight CBs in each new conference running one of the level 7 leagues and their feeders. The current divisions are mainly based on the railway network - I agree is we are looking at minimizing travel it should be time not distance. But what are we looking to minimize. Overall travel, overall travel for a club, the longest single journey for a club -which you prioritize will give different answers. The other solution is not to level transfer and to simply fill the leagues geographically and accepting differences in numbers means different numbers will be promoted in different leagues. The problem there is that the club that would drop down is not the same as the one that would be level transferred. |
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Even Older Hooker
British and Irish Lion 
Joined: 18 Dec 2020 Location: Horsham Status: Offline Points: 181 |
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Posted: 29 Dec 2020 at 08:41 |
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Hopper. If you have heating in the clubhouse and the Red wine is at a decent temp I am sure we will cope
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Another one against the head
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Scrumtime
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Joined: 26 Aug 2020 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 835 |
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Posted: 29 Dec 2020 at 08:43 |
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Interesting debate this one:
Lets face facts Saracens will be back in the Prem 22/23 season. If its correct or not is another matter, but with the player base they have they have to be. No slight on Ealing but sorry that cannot happen, you cannot buy your way into the Prem. I can see the Prem going to 13 sides with all stakeholders in play. I can also see the Champ going to 13. Making both 24 game league seasons, which makes perfect sense on all fronts, player burn out, rest weeks, playing league rugby on same weekends etc etc Prem will not be ring fenced, they cannot, you play sport to strive to get to the top. But it will be a home and away play off bottom of Prem v top of Champ each season for that final spot, so they have left the door not open but ajar and therefore ticked all boxes. If that happens it would leave Champ with 11 sides : No relegation 21/22 season and top 3 from National 1 at end of 21/22 season go up. That would also ease the pressure at the bottom, with just bottom side going down and top of National 2 North and South going up. There is no way you can have bottom 4 sides in a league or 25% of the league going down. The odds are that the 4th from bottom side in National 1, no matter who they are would comfortably beat the winners of National 2 South and North. Also the 4th from bottom side would make National 2 a joke for whatever league they are in the following season. In my view the top 3 sides on any given season would hold their own in the Champ, even more so now many clubs are not full time. This the leaves 3 leagues of 14 below National 1. Edited by Scrumtime - 29 Dec 2020 at 09:46 |
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Kimbo
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Joined: 31 May 2007 Location: 'incleh Status: Offline Points: 6184 |
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Posted: 29 Dec 2020 at 10:04 |
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I wouldn't put anything past them. I remember six of a 13-team Division Two being relegated!
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Our Club |
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Kimbo
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Posted: 29 Dec 2020 at 10:25 |
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Now I think on, it might even have been seven...
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Our Club |
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Camquin
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Joined: 01 Jun 2007 Location: Cambridge Status: Offline Points: 11121 |
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Posted: 29 Dec 2020 at 10:39 |
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I would point out that last seasons promoted side was Rams, and they beat most people, not just the bottom four. When
the Championship was created it was five down and one up - and that was
imposed mid season. No waiting for the next season because they could
not change the rules after the season started. But they felt they could
not deny the old National 2 any promotion. Of course, it stuffed the
team that narrowly came second - now who would that have been, and why
would I remember. Four down is only one more than at the moment - and it will need to be 3 from 14 going down in subsequent years. The
current proposal assumes the Premiership and Championship stay the same
size - I do not believe they will but that is out of our control. But
yes, if they increase there will be fewer down from Nat 1. |
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workerbee
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Joined: 20 May 2009 Location: Wirral Status: Offline Points: 883 |
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Posted: 29 Dec 2020 at 11:19 |
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What ever the breakdown of the initial three level 4 leagues, the issue in future seasons will be level transfer between the leagues. It would be possible for all three of Nat 1 to be from the North so two sides from the North would go South East or South west making some horrendous journeys for these teams. So much for reducing travel being reduced. The only realistic option would be to revert to the old system which meant that if three were relegated into a lover league then those relegations would have a ripple effect on the leagues in their pyramid.
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Camquin
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Joined: 01 Jun 2007 Location: Cambridge Status: Offline Points: 11121 |
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Posted: 29 Dec 2020 at 13:34 |
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I have just looked at a possible North Midlands South split. As far as I can tell the North is unchanged. The Midlands stretch from Sheffield down to the Thames - including Henley, Rochford and Westcliff. The South is the long thin sliver from Redruth to Canterbury with the London clubs included. |
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tigerburnie
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Posted: 29 Dec 2020 at 15:44 |
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Back in the days before leagues we travelled to Kings Lynn and Saffron Waldon in the east, St Albans was about as far south as we went. Warrington and Sheffield in the north Brum as far west as went. A 4 day Easter tour to Swansea finished off the season.
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Raider999
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Posted: 29 Dec 2020 at 20:30 |
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Well that's 2/3 of level 4 fairly content whilst the Southern teams pay for the success of having 2 teams promoted most years whilst 2 northern/midland teams are relegated most years from level 3. Has anyone suggested splitting Level 3 into North/Midlands and South? |
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RAID ON
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Camquin
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Joined: 01 Jun 2007 Location: Cambridge Status: Offline Points: 11121 |
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Posted: 29 Dec 2020 at 21:30 |
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The earlier version of the NCA proposal mentioned it - but the V4
proposal currently on the RFU website simply leaves the arrangement of
leagues at levels 4,5 and 6 vague - it also simply fails to define the
structure at levels 8,9 and 10.
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Monkey Boy
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Joined: 13 Nov 2011 Status: Offline Points: 1809 |
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Posted: 30 Dec 2020 at 00:22 |
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He can go to Devon any weekend regardless of rugby. Don’t be basing playing structure on what non players think
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Raider999
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Posted: 30 Dec 2020 at 12:52 |
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I'm not - just pointing out the problem is the remoteness of teams in Devon & more particularly Cornwall. |
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Even Older Hooker
British and Irish Lion
Joined: 18 Dec 2020 Location: Horsham Status: Offline Points: 181 |
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Posted: 30 Dec 2020 at 14:26 |
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Monkey Boy.
I understand that we must consider what is best for the players. However do not forget that many clubs , unless they have a "Sugar Daddy" rely heavily on our membership fee gate money and hospitality !!! I do not know what your club is if any. But I suggest the supporters there would fell similar to me. Please do not be so dismissive |
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Another one against the head
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Offside194
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Joined: 03 Mar 2020 Location: 857625 Status: Offline Points: 5 |
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Posted: 30 Dec 2020 at 14:33 |
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Puzzled by your selection Camquin.
Mine assumes 14 team Premier and champ. leaving: N1 N2N N2SW N2SE DMP Roth Redruth Cant Plym Hull Ion Clift O.As O Elt Hull Bournv Hinck Camb Sedg Pk Stourb Worth Cind Chester Luct Esher B. Stort Tynedale Dings BSE Sale Wharfd Barnst L Lions Moseley Sheff.Tig Okehamp Barnes Leeds Hudd W S Mare Westcl T Judd Blaydon Bridgn Rochf Taunt Harrog Sandbach Guernsey Caldy Sandal Bromsgr Loughb Henley Billingham Macclesf Wimb Fylde Sheff Nuneaton Hertford
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Raider999
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Posted: 30 Dec 2020 at 15:37 |
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Apples and pears - Camquin was assuming Premiership & Championship remained the same size as there is currently no published plans for otherwise. However, it seems your assumption does leave a better geographic split. |
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PiffPaff
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Posted: 30 Dec 2020 at 16:00 |
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Does it? Think Sandbach and Macclesfield might have issues travelling to Cornwall & Devon more than once! Any reason why Loughborough Students are in the South East when its further North than Nuneaton? same goes for Hinckley and Leicester Lions.
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Crouch, Bind, Tweet!
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Thatbloke
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Joined: 02 Sep 2017 Location: Newport Status: Online Points: 1714 |
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Posted: 30 Dec 2020 at 16:22 |
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Now you HAVE confused me!!! Why 4 Leagues when we are told there will be 3? Why are Sandbach, Nuneaton, Bromsgrove, Sheffield and Bridgnorth even in your equation??? Didn't finish high enough in Mids Prem to be elevated to level 4. Newport(Salop) finished 2nd but are excluded from your calculations - I'm sure there's others!?
The idea of four Leagues is a non-starter for me. Relegated sides from Level 3 playing mid table sides from Level5 is madness and won't be good for the game
Edited by Thatbloke - 30 Dec 2020 at 16:51 |
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Scrumtime wrote: