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Halliford 
World Cup Winner
Joined: 17 Feb 2010
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 4144
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 Posted: 04 Aug 2020 at 22:28 |
I have! Last year the Return was completed by me as Secretary passed to the President, Chairman and Treasurer for signature then submitted online as a pdf as well as ticking some boxes. This year it was all done online with the 4 of us signing electronically through GMS.
Those 4 roles are those that the RFU holds responsible for each Club.
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Mark W-J
Coaching staff
Joined: 22 May 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3646
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Posted: 05 Aug 2020 at 08:30 |
 Runitback wrote:
I am sorry but if it takes 4 people to sign off a return it is obviously too complicated, this is an amateur at best semi - pro sport, run by enthusiasts and amateurs. Yes flagrant breaking of the rules should be punished but not simple clerical errors . . come on. Rams and PA have been very very harshly treated, and to impose a fine on either club at these times is simply madness . . .. I wonder what salary sacrifice Sweeney Todd has made? |
But the RFU's attitude appears to be that if four people have to sign it, and three of them couldn't be bothered to check that the first person had done it correctly, then the club has been negligent.
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Camquin
World Cup Winner
Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Location: Cambridge
Status: Offline
Points: 11118
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Posted: 05 Aug 2020 at 09:32 |
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You have to wonder how often they do not bother to read the documents they sign in their day jobs.
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Sweeney Delenda Est
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PiffPaff
World Cup Winner
Joined: 30 Oct 2014
Location: Manchester
Status: Offline
Points: 1126
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Posted: 05 Aug 2020 at 10:11 |
This isn't Rocket Science....use to be. In the good old days (3 years ago) you had to manually fill out the form and send it to Nicky Cook. Who whilst she was a stickler for the rules she also very, very helpful. GMS has replaced all the manual entry bit and you basically have to answer some Yes/No Tick Boxes, if you don't understand the question you could still ask for help just don't press SEND until you were ready. It then required the other 3 "Golden" Role people to read and click confirm, kind of a anti-negligence check. So yes its sad they did PA for a clerical error but it looks a bit negligent to a man on a galloping horse does it not?
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Crouch, Bind, Tweet!
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Raider999
World Cup Winner
Joined: 18 Jan 2013
Location: Crawley
Status: Offline
Points: 4429
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Posted: 05 Aug 2020 at 11:15 |
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I think this is the point, if only 1 person needed to sign it off there would be scope for errors either deliberate or accidental.
By having 4 signatories then any such errors should be highlighted before submission, assuming they actually read it through and don't just sign it.
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RAID ON
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Redted
World Cup Winner
Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 1077
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Posted: 05 Aug 2020 at 19:11 |
There is nothing to read through. All the submission requires is a total figure spent on paying players and coaches, including taxable expenses. For most clubs this a relatively simple figure to get correct, but gets more complicated where players have jobs linked to playing rugby for the club. This is probably where Plymouth struggled. No supporting documents are requested by the RFU.
In true GMS style thought the IT around the system only works when it want to!
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Camp Freddie
British and Irish Lion
Joined: 04 Jul 2018
Location: Lancs
Status: Offline
Points: 153
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Posted: 06 Aug 2020 at 08:05 |
One problem with the declaration for lower clubs was when the Chairman was also the Treasurer and the guy who washed the kit as well as marking the pitches etc etc. GMS would not accept that someone could have multiple Golden Roles and went in to melt down.
I understand that governance are looking to drop the 4 signatories to 2 at lower league levels to ease the process.
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The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom.
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Camquin
World Cup Winner
Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Location: Cambridge
Status: Offline
Points: 11118
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Posted: 06 Aug 2020 at 15:53 |
If your club cannot find four people to be on the committee how do they find 15 to turn out on Saturday.
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Sweeney Delenda Est
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The Joy of (Level) 7
World Cup Winner
Joined: 15 Dec 2010
Location: Devon
Status: Offline
Points: 327
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Posted: 06 Aug 2020 at 22:14 |
Camquin wrote:
If your club cannot find four people to be on the committee how do they find 15 to turn out on Saturday.
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They pay them?
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TJOS
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Scrumtime
World Cup Winner
Joined: 26 Aug 2020
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 833
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Posted: 09 Sep 2020 at 08:59 |
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CJB1
World Cup Winner
Moseley
Joined: 25 May 2007
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 1828
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Posted: 09 Sep 2020 at 10:44 |
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To be clear, this is Hull RUFC, *not* Hull Ionians.
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"What I need is a strong drink and a peer group"
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Raider999
World Cup Winner
Joined: 18 Jan 2013
Location: Crawley
Status: Offline
Points: 4429
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Posted: 09 Sep 2020 at 11:05 |
CJB1 wrote:
To be clear, this is Hull RUFC, *not* Hull Ionians.
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Thought that was clear anyway - Ionians not mentioned at all in the link.
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RAID ON
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billesleyexile
World Cup Winner
Joined: 20 Jun 2013
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 1855
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Posted: 09 Sep 2020 at 11:34 |
Raider999 wrote:
CJB1 wrote:
To be clear, this is Hull RUFC, *not* Hull Ionians.
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Thought that was clear anyway - Ionians not mentioned at all in the link. |
Well you'd think so, but it does beg the question of why it was on the National 1 board - never mind any confusion with Ionians (who, like last time, I'm sorry to lose - good fans, good ground)
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keep the faith
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Puli.
World Cup Winner
Joined: 05 Jan 2010
Location: East Yorkshire.
Status: Offline
Points: 2700
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Posted: 09 Sep 2020 at 11:55 |
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Old news, both players left the Hull RFC club before the start of last season
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If Rugby is the game they play in Heaven ..... Why does it hurt like Hell when you retire?
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French Connection
World Cup Winner
Joined: 16 May 2017
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 653
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Posted: 09 Sep 2020 at 12:11 |
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If they were able to test all the players in Nat 1 and below they'd find that many hundreds had taken performance enhancing drugs. The amount of it going on would be staggering to many on here who have no experience of the bodybuilding/gym/weight lifting culture prevalent today among young men. It's huge.
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TigerTitan
British and Irish Lion
Joined: 05 Jun 2016
Location: Sheffield
Status: Offline
Points: 182
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Posted: 09 Sep 2020 at 15:22 |
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no drug testers cos of COVID at the moment smash it in boys
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CJB1
World Cup Winner
Moseley
Joined: 25 May 2007
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 1828
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Posted: 09 Sep 2020 at 20:31 |
Raider999 wrote:
CJB1 wrote:
To be clear, this is Hull RUFC, *not* Hull Ionians.
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Thought that was clear anyway - Ionians not mentioned at all in the link. |
I know, but it's easy to be a bit lazy and refer to Ionians as "Hull", overlooking the other club's existence.
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"What I need is a strong drink and a peer group"
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omnes Paviores
First XV regular
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Location: West of Hull
Status: Offline
Points: 115
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Posted: 09 Sep 2020 at 22:06 |
To be absolutely clear this was HULL RFC. Three players were involved. The two named plus one who was dealt with separately who was a Romanian International 7's player.
Those players are now out of the game for sometime, thank goodness
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Sid James
World Cup Winner
Joined: 28 Jun 2013
Location: East Yorkshire
Status: Offline
Points: 1643
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Posted: 09 Sep 2020 at 22:24 |
French Connection wrote:
If they were able to test all the players in Nat 1 and below they'd find that many hundreds had taken performance enhancing drugs. The amount of it going on would be staggering to many on here who have no experience of the bodybuilding/gym/weight lifting culture prevalent today among young men. It's huge. |
That is quite a 'throw away' comment FC. Can you support it? I prefer to believe that there are far more players who do not break the rules, than those that do.
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All Knwoing All Seeing
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Sid James
World Cup Winner
Joined: 28 Jun 2013
Location: East Yorkshire
Status: Offline
Points: 1643
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Posted: 09 Sep 2020 at 22:51 |
Puli. wrote:
Old news, both players left the Hull RFC club before the start of last season |
Puli, To be fair, the 'old news' is that all 3 incidents occurred in Feb 2019 but, the posting refers to the 'new'' news' that the 2 further sanction decisions have finally been decided, in July 2020. The first sanction decision was in Nov 2019. Even with delays due to Covid-19, 17 months is quite some time for the remaining 2 players to await their fate.
Do you think 3 UKAD Sanctions at one RU Club is evidence of systemic failure at the Club or, would you say that the individual players are wholly responsible? I believe all 3 players were regular players at the time of the incidents but they have since left Hull RUFC. Do you know if they were asked to leave?
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All Knwoing All Seeing
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