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Ringfencing is here
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Stoatgobbler View Drop Down
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Points: 456 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stoatgobbler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2020 at 13:37
Originally posted by Robb Robb wrote:

Originally posted by PiffPaff PiffPaff wrote:

Hi Robb, think Welsh are Welsh i.e the 1st XV after the collapse of the previous body, aren't Irish Ams a separate entity now? Didn't Scottish rebrand the lowers XVs as the Lions. Allowing lower XVs in the RFu Leagues isn't new (see SW Leagues) in the North it is due to other organised Leagues Comps.
That's how they got around the rules. London Welsh Amateur were a separate club legally and just adopted the London Welsh name after the liquidation of the original club. Likewise LIARFC and the Scots have done that too. 


There was no 'getting around the rules'.
When LW went to the Premiership, that team were the lone entity. They are the ones that disappeared.
The 'original club' was always the other teams.


Edited by Stoatgobbler - 01 Aug 2020 at 13:38
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workerbee View Drop Down
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Points: 885 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote workerbee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2020 at 13:51
If less travel is part of the objectives why not consider Nat 1 to be two conferences North and South, which is what the Championship is discussing. At present Nat 1 is becoming London Dominated and the cost of travel is horrendous for Northern clubs especially if the RFU reduce it further or even cancel it.
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Points: 2167 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pappashanga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Aug 2020 at 11:03
More propaganda in favour of ringfencing in TRP today. Lead article is a self interested rant by the Gloucester owner. I suppose he has to protect his business interests.
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Mark W-J View Drop Down
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Points: 3647 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W-J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Aug 2020 at 16:49
Originally posted by Stoatgobbler Stoatgobbler wrote:

Originally posted by Robb Robb wrote:

[
That's how they got around the rules. London Welsh Amateur were a separate club legally and just adopted the London Welsh name after the liquidation of the original club. Likewise LIARFC and the Scots have done that too. 


There was no 'getting around the rules'.
When LW went to the Premiership, that team were the lone entity. They are the ones that disappeared.
The 'original club' was always the other teams.
Just to expand on this, the club (comprising the Amateurs, Occies, women, minis & juniors etc) wasn't liquidated. The professional entity - London Welsh Rugby Football Club Limited - was.  Where you draw the line between the entities is blurred - of course the 1st XV was part of the club, but it was a separate limited company with its own (limited) assets and (extensive) liabilities.  At that point the Amateurs became the defacto 1st XV by virtue of being the most senior team at the club. But good luck unpicking the history of those 20 years between the formation of the first limited company (I can think of at least three) and the liquidation of the last one, the transfer of assets to the CASC, and the legal and RFU definition of what a rugby club is.
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Points: 1395 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonDee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Aug 2020 at 09:41
Originally posted by Mark W-J Mark W-J wrote:

Originally posted by Stoatgobbler Stoatgobbler wrote:

Originally posted by Robb Robb wrote:

[
That's how they got around the rules. London Welsh Amateur were a separate club legally and just adopted the London Welsh name after the liquidation of the original club. Likewise LIARFC and the Scots have done that too. 


There was no 'getting around the rules'.
When LW went to the Premiership, that team were the lone entity. They are the ones that disappeared.
The 'original club' was always the other teams.


Just to expand on this, the club (comprising the Amateurs, Occies, women, minis & juniors etc) wasn't liquidated. The professional entity - London Welsh Rugby Football Club Limited - was.  Where you draw the line between the entities is blurred - of course the 1st XV was part of the club, but it was a separate limited company with its own (limited) assets and (extensive) liabilities.  At that point the Amateurs became the defacto 1st XV by virtue of being the most senior team at the club. But good luck unpicking the history of those 20 years between the formation of the first limited company (I can think of at least three) and the liquidation of the last one, the transfer of assets to the CASC, and the legal and RFU definition of what a rugby club is.


Mark
Nottingham did a similar thing when we had to move from Ireland Avenue and the championship was started by the RFU Council , the whole club i.e members players mini and juniors etc were advised of the thinking and a meeting was held for everyone to discuss and vote on the proposal of setting the 1st team up as limited co to protect the rest of the club and its assets if the whole crackpot idea of the championship blew up
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Points: 1126 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PiffPaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2020 at 18:00
Originally posted by PiffPaff PiffPaff wrote:

Clearly RFU Comps will take it all on-board, meanwhile........

........in 10 Days time RFU Comps will release the proposed Competition structures for 2021/22

Level 3 will remain 16 Teams (old Nat 1)
Level 4 will be 4 x as close to RFU Divisional (Regions) Leagues with 14 Teams in Each (old Nat 2N & 2S - teams from old Level 5 will be "uplifted" to fill in the gaps with a cascade effect from bottom up to re-balance the lower leagues)

Level 5 will be 12 Team Leagues unless regional variations means more/less teams (old Regional Premier)
Level 6 will be 12 Team Leagues
Level 7 down will be 12 Team Leagues or in some Regions 10 Team Leagues or less 

Talk of lower League National Cups comps with  differing structures.

Point 1
2nd XVs of Clubs from Level 3-5 will be allowed to participate in the RFU Leagues with a ceiling of not being able to play higher than Level 7 which will be reviewed after 1st year and which then may rise to Level 6.

Point 2
Don't think this includes any Clubs in the North West outside of the RFU Leagues (ie, Lancashire Lge and North West Lge)

Pretty sure the Clubs in the North rejected Point 1 when the RFU did their "listening surveys" also told that any further planned "discussions" will now NOT take place as planned.

Prove me wrong those in the know........... or wait 10 days!

Level 3-6 gone out just now to CBs and Club Secs.... I might be reading it wrong but Chester are in the same League as Redruth???? of course just a proposal......
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Points: 11150 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2020 at 19:24
How many leagues are they suggesting at each level?
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PiffPaff View Drop Down
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Points: 1126 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PiffPaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2020 at 20:36
Think it will be on englandrugby.com later but try this link....
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Points: 3322 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rabbie Burns Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2020 at 21:59
That cannot be correct as it starts this September. Still totally unbalanced with 2 breaks before Christmas and 5 afterwards
So many Christians not enough Lions
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Points: 461 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Neasham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2020 at 07:56
It is correct. The “2020-21”  fixture list is an example. It will be introduced in 2021-22 season.
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'Hopper View Drop Down
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Points: 1512 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 'Hopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2020 at 13:14
If the 2020-2021 season isn't completed, will the new League Structures still be implemented in 2021?
Saying  that, I'm assuming that the Council will approve the structure that's been set out of course.


Edited by 'Hopper - 15 Aug 2020 at 13:14
What if the Hokey Kokey really IS what it's all about?
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The Blues View Drop Down
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Surprised no Christmas match, they (for Bedford anyway) as the biggest gate of the season.
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Preston Grasshoppers

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Originally posted by The Blues The Blues wrote:

Surprised no Christmas match, they (for Bedford anyway) as the biggest gate of the season.
There hasn't been any Christmas Holiday league matches at those levels for years.


Edited by 'Hopper - 15 Aug 2020 at 14:55
What if the Hokey Kokey really IS what it's all about?
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kempstonblue View Drop Down
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Points: 506 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kempstonblue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2020 at 15:00
I don’t think the likes of Cambridge have played league matches at Christmas

Still confused, by 2021/22 am reading Championship will be two conferences, 14+8 fixtures. So no difference to the 22 matches currently played. But an open draw cup?
R16, Quarters, Semis and Final.
But love or hate the current cup delivers 3 extra home matches. 
The older I get, the more the RFU leave me confused.
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The Blues View Drop Down
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Originally posted by 'Hopper 'Hopper wrote:

Originally posted by The Blues The Blues wrote:

Surprised no Christmas match, they (for Bedford anyway) as the biggest gate of the season.
There hasn't been any Christmas Holiday league matches at those levels for years.

Perhaps they should try, Blues go from around 2,500 - 2,750 to 5,000 to 5,500, a good income generator.
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Preston Grasshoppers

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Points: 1512 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 'Hopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2020 at 09:33
Originally posted by The Blues The Blues wrote:

Originally posted by 'Hopper 'Hopper wrote:

Originally posted by The Blues The Blues wrote:

Surprised no Christmas match, they (for Bedford anyway) as the biggest gate of the season.
There hasn't been any Christmas Holiday league matches at those levels for years.

Perhaps they should try, Blues go from around 2,500 - 2,750 to 5,000 to 5,500, a good income generator.

I think it's designed that way to give players time with their families. Our club, as with many others hold annual charity games on Boxing Day. 
What if the Hokey Kokey really IS what it's all about?
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kempstonblue View Drop Down
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Points: 506 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kempstonblue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2020 at 12:18
I wonder how far down the leagues you can play festive games at?
Bedford i suspect attract players from Ath, Queens etc to watch a game. 

Harlequins game at Twickenham attracts players from a lot of the commuter belt, bumped into Luton players at Big Game, out for post Christmas drinks. With marketing maybe a club like Cambridge could attract a bigger crowd. But below National 1 how many clubs are the only club in a district, or the secondary club?
The older I get, the more the RFU leave me confused.
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