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Proposed " Class Action"

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Steve@Mose View Drop Down
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    Posted: 23 Apr 2024 at 13:09
Brain-cooling treatment for concussion trialled

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A new brain-cooling treatment for sports-related concussion is being trialled in professional rugby union.

It is the first acute treatment for the injury able to be delivered pitchside and is being used by six clubs in the United Rugby Championship (URC).

'PolarCap' works by delivering targeted cooling to the head and neck for between 45 and 60 minutes following a concussion injury.

The treatment originates from a five-year study in professional ice hockey in Sweden, which found it had the potential to reduce long-term concussion absence.

Mental and physical rest have until now been the main treatments for sports-related concussion, alongside a graduated return to action.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve@Mose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2024 at 11:08
Smart gumshields: Why were they introduced, and what more can be done?

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Smart gumshields that record the forces involved in collision sports are being used in the men's Six Nations for the first time.

The gumshields, which contain a chip to record gravitational forces, are being gradually rolled out in professional rugby union.

Few doubt that represents a step towards helping to better understand collision sports, but some of the research has been questioned by concussion experts, and there are calls for further change.

Here's what you need to know.

What is the background?

Rugby union faces a crisis over safety, with hundreds of former players taking the game's governing bodies to court over the management of head injuries during their careers.

In October, World Rugby confirmed smart mouthguards would be worn at the WXV - a new international competition - before being brought in worldwide from January 2024.

That came after several trials and two academic studies funded by World Rugby - the results of which it said provided "players and parents with greater confidence than ever before into the benefits and safety of rugby".

In October, chief medical officer Dr Eanna Falvey told BBC Sport the introduction of gumshields would be a "really positive" change.

The gumshields - made by Prevent Biometrics - record the gravitational force (G-force) and direction of force involved in contacts, which are known as "head acceleration events".

They can provide real-time data to a doctor or official on the sidelines, and be utilised to inform the Head Injury Assessment (HIA) process players go through after head contact.

What did World Rugby's research say?

World Rugby funded the Otago Community Head Impact Detection study (Orchid) and its Elite Extension study, which was undertaken by Ulster University.

The Orchid study used smart gumshields to examine cumulative head acceleration events (HAEs) in male rugby players in New Zealand from the under-13 age group through to elite level.

It found 86% of forces on the head in community rugby are the same or less than those experienced in general exercise such as running, jumping and skipping, while 94% are lower than those previously measured on people riding a rollercoaster.

The Elite Extension study, which looked at both men's and women's rugby, found most contact events in the elite game do not result in significant force to the head, though forwards are more likely to experience force events than backs.

World Rugby said the data provided "a complete picture of playing rugby like never before". Its chairman Sir Bill Beaumont - a former England captain - adding the Orchid study was "concrete proof" the organisation was putting time, energy and effort into making the sport even safer and would "never stand still on player welfare".

World Rugby has developed minimum specifications for smart gumshields - which include independent testing - and says it will review them every six months.

The Prevent Biometrics gumshield was chosen for roll-out as World Rugby said it was the only manufacturer to meet its specifications.

A trial in 2019, when players from Welsh clubs Ospreys and Blues wore smart gumshields during a Pro14 match, used Protecht gumshields.

What has been the criticism?

The Orchid study's lead author acknowledges the technology is still in its infancy.

Professor Melanie Bussey, of the University of Otago, said: "Player safety is our utmost concern, and this technology is giving us the best chance we have of understanding the multifactorial nature of head injury in sport.

"But we need a lot more research to understand the clinical relevance of this data. That is how science works."

However, two concussion experts have said data from force events below 10G should have been disregarded, and there should have been greater detail for data recorded over 60G.

Events under 10G are similar to those experienced riding a rollercoaster or trampolining. Recent studies have found American Football players diagnosed with concussion had HAEs ranging from 40-150G.

Professor Alan Pearce, of La Trobe University in Melbourne, said it was "quite puzzling" that all forces over 60G were grouped together in the study.

"There is plenty of evidence to say that there are a lot of impacts, not just concussive impacts, above 60G, so it takes out a lot of data," he added.

"Rugby is saying a lot of the hits are no different to skipping and running... that's a clear case of if you're starting to collect data below 10G, well you can say things like that."

The main author of the Elite Extension study said all impacts above 60G were grouped together because there were such a low number of them.

But Dr Doug King, a New Zealand-based expert in head injury and head biomechanics, said concussions often occur above 90G and was therefore concerned the data was not showing "the full picture".

An academic paper presented to the International Research Council on Biomechanics of Injury last year said the technology in the Prevent gumshield underestimated acceleration in higher-speed impacts

Professor Damian Bailey - director of the Neurovascular Research Laboratory at the University of South Wales - said: "There are justifiable concerns that some of the really big impacts that can really cause damage are going to be missed - going above 100G, for example.

"It can be quite rare, but these are events that are really important to capture."

In a statement, Prevent Biometrics said its Intelligent Mouthguard system was "the most widely evaluated and independently scrutinised head impact sensor on the planet" having gone through "thousands" of laboratory tests that were peer-reviewed and published.

World Rugby said the studies were independent, and data had been "accurately reported in full and independently peer-reviewed".

Of the seven co-authors of the Orchid study, five declared conflicts of interest, and two co-authors of the Elite Extension study were declared as World Rugby employees.

While it is common for sporting bodies to fund academic research, Prof Pearce said "a number" of scientists were "very concerned about the independence aspect".

"We're walking a very fine line between true independent research where funding organisations, including sport, should be able to give the money but have absolutely no involvement whatsoever," he said.

In response, the lead author of the study told the BBC that World Rugby was "not involved in the study's data processing, data analysis and interpretation of the research or outcomes" of the research to protect its integrity.

Prof Bussey added: "As academic researchers we have our own ethics and standards to uphold. Our research stands as independent work that has been published in one of the top scientific journals in our field and has been independently peer-reviewed by multiple, highly reputable, senior researchers in our field.

"We stand by our findings and our own integrity as researchers. From the outset our position with world rugby was that 'we will follow the data wherever that takes us'."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve@Mose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2024 at 16:11
Concussion in women: New research under way into impact on female athletes

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When the whistle blew at the end of the 2014 Women's Rugby World Cup final, Kat Merchant was overcome with emotion for more reasons than one.

Not only had she and her England team-mates just beaten Canada to lift the trophy for a second time, but Merchant knew this would be her last outing in an England shirt.

Wing Merchant was struggling with the impact of a number of concussions - a total "probably in the thirties" - from the ages of 16 to 28.

"There is a great photo someone's got of my face, and I look like I've got 20,000 emotions going on," Merchant told BBC Sport.

"I burst out crying because I was like, 'I am never going to play rugby again'. I was never going to put my boots on.

"I was 28, still kind of top of my game, and I knew I was not going to do this again. Although I was really excited that we won, it was bittersweet."

Concussion and its impact has been discussed more in recent years, particularly in rugby and football. However, there is little research into the specific impact on women.

Some suggests women are at higher risk of concussions and can take longer to recover. But the data is sphazelnut - one sports scientist estimates that in 2021 only 6% of sports science literature as a whole used female-only participants.

...

'Four months of lying in the dark'

Concussion is a traumatic brain injury affecting mental function, meaning it can alter the way someone thinks, feels and remembers. Only about 10% result in losing consciousness.

For Merchant, her last concussion made her feel as though she was on a ferry, moving all the time. She had a fencing response - where the arms go up in the air in an unnatural position, sometimes for several seconds after the impact - and struggled with confusion in the weeks and months after.

"I was very confused about my family being there - I wouldn't put my clothes on because I said they weren't mine," she said.

"Loud noises, I would physically wince. And bright lights I would have this headache.

"I couldn't look at my phone; couldn't read a book. I would just sort of lie there in the dark. It was four months of that, wondering when you're ever going to feel all right again."

One study found men and women are likely to report different symptoms after a concussion - men, for example, are more likely to experience amnesia in the days and weeks after, while women report prolonged headaches, mental fatigue and difficulties with concentration.

Another suggests women could be more at risk depending on what phase of their menstrual cycle they are in.

Governing body World Rugby said in 2023 there had not been enough research on concussion in the women's game.

It has introduced smart mouthguards, which send alerts of high force to the independent matchday doctor, in the women's and men's game. The devices are also worn in training, helping coaches to tailor sessions.

It is not just rugby. A 2021 study found teenage girls who play football are almost twice as much at risk of concussion as teenage boys, with girls more likely to be concussed on contact with the ball or a goalpost.

There will never be a one-size-fits-all for any injury but, as Chelsea manager Emma Hayes has said, women are not small men.

As she put it last August: "Just because your men's team's workload or gym work is organised one way, that absolutely does not mean it should be planned the same for women."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maire23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2023 at 19:47
I’ve just read an article which has published the full list of player’s names that have been made public. 
There are four from my own club, three of whom I knew well. One of which I am not surprised at as his career was finished very prematurely by head injuries- I got to know him very well at the time and despite my medical training it shocked me to hear of it. Another was very high profile at the time. The other two are two brothers, whom I knew reasonably well but I never knew either of them to struggle with concussion. Both of them struggled with various other injuries but never concussion. It just goes to show what was going on behind the scenes. 
Link if anyone is interested- 
You need to scroll to the bottom to see the list in full. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baggins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2023 at 16:15
Once again the hearing was adjourned as once again the players council didn't provide medical histories for the players to the defence.

I can't see what the player's council are doing here, if it is complicated - ask for more time, repeatedly coming to court without the evidence the court requires is not a good look.

Hopefully things are going on in the background to render this pointless but once the lawyers get involved things have a tendency to spin out into long and expensive cases.

Players affected must be looked after, regardless of whether it can be proved that rugby caused their health problems ( doubtful ) or not.
Proving rugby is the root cause is going to be nigh on impossible, it can only be given a statistical likelihood considering the same conditions turn up in people who never did a days exercise in their lives and the vast majority of rugby players have no issues in later life ( or haven't shown any so far as this seems to be an issue tied with going professional ).

Given that a solution where ex-players are looked after seems to be the only morally correct thing to do, but getting the lawyers involved just entrenches both sides.

Meanwhile how do we reduce the risk to current players? It can only be through less game time and that means smaller leagues ( uneconomic ), more players ( uneconomic ) or playing players drastically less so more players can be employed across the season.

It looks like the current number of games that top players have is unsustainable


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2023 at 15:17
Originally posted by Paul10 Paul10 wrote:

Reaches high court tomorrow 

Extract from Guarniad below


"There are 268 players involved in the action. They don’t all have the same diagnoses, or the same symptoms, but they all have their own stories.

At the high court on Friday a judge will decide whether they can go ahead with their group legal order, and, if they can, which test cases will be put forward for trial."


At training last night the U14s were told to dominate tackles and knock the ball carrier backwards. 

I guess this is how it is explained bu RFU community coaching instructors.

As long as good tackling technique is being coached there should not be a problem. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2023 at 08:51
Reaches high court tomorrow 

Extract from Guarniad below


"There are 268 players involved in the action. They don’t all have the same diagnoses, or the same symptoms, but they all have their own stories.

At the high court on Friday a judge will decide whether they can go ahead with their group legal order, and, if they can, which test cases will be put forward for trial."


At training last night the U14s were told to dominate tackles and knock the ball carrier backwards. 

I guess this is how it is explained bu RFU community coaching instructors.


Edited by Paul10 - 30 Nov 2023 at 08:54
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve@Mose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 2023 at 12:02
Concussion: Research in women's game lacking - World Rugby

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There has not been enough research in the women's game on issues such as concussion, rugby bosses have admitted.

Concerns are being raised by experts over head injuries in the sport and the gap in knowledge about how they are sustained, prevented and treated.

Ex-Wales centre Alecs Donovan said when she got concussed playing for Ospreys she was "not even sure we had a physio. There wasn't that medical support".

World Rugby said there was a "definite need" to close the gap in knowledge.

Women's rugby in Wales has hit new heights with a surge in popularity and professional contracts for the international team.

...

World Rugby said it was working with other organisations on projects to gather data in the women's game, including the debut of smart mouthguards at the new WXV tournament. 

Donovan, 32, and her ex-Wales teammate Elinor Snowsill were both affected by concussions during their careers.

Donovan, who played for Wales until 2021, said one time "I actually didn't know I was concussed" when she suffered a head injury while playing for her club side about seven years ago.

Ospreys declined to comment.

Fly-half Snowsill, who retired from international rugby in 2023, said there was still a reliance on male research for the women's game.

She told Wales Live: "Most of the things we do currently - the way we eat, the way we train - a lot of it is driven from and based on research on male athletes.

"But, we have completely different bodies, we play differently and we train differently.

"I think it's really important in concussion and in other areas that we increase how much research there is out there, specifically on female athletes."

Researchers say much of the focus around head injuries has been on the men's game for many years.

Cardiff Metropolitan University lecturers Dr Izzy Moore and Dr Molly McCarthy are collaborating with higher education facilities around the UK to work on filling that gap in people's knowledge.

Dr Moore said the lack of female-specific data meant "we are missing a huge piece of the jigsaw puzzle in looking after our female players".

One of these projects - led by Swansea University - involves gathering and monitoring data by using mouthguards that measure the force of head impacts during play and analysing videos from training and matches.

Dr Moore said: "When we look at the videos in the women's game we see over 50% of head impacts are occurring as players fall to the ground.

"Whereas in the men's game they have the stronger necks and they sustain head impacts mainly through direct body contact in a tackle event."

World Rugby data suggests women sustain head injuries mostly through head-to-head contact, which is different to that of a number of academic institutions in Wales.

Dr Moore said the age both sexes start playing might affect how they play and suffer injuries, with women often playing for the first time at university.

This gives their male counterparts a 10-year head start, with the early years "really important for developing their skills and tackle proficiency".

She added: "We may have women players who are going out on to the pitch for the first match they play and are still learning how to tackle. That may increase their injury risk."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve@Mose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2023 at 09:50
Longer rugby careers linked to higher risk of brain injury - study

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A study of former rugby players' brains has found that those who played for longer were more likely to develop a degenerative brain disease.

Out of 31 donated brains analysed, 21 had evidence of a condition linked to repeated head injuries and concussion.

Nearly two-thirds of those affected by chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE) played at amateur level.

The researchers say their findings back up calls to reduce head impacts in all sports.

CTE is a brain condition thought to be caused by repeated head injuries and blows to the head. It slowly gets worse over time and leads to dementia.

People who regularly play contact sports such as football, boxing, rugby and American football have a higher chance of developing it, post-mortem studies have shown.

More than 300 former football, rugby league and rugby union players in the UK are taking legal action over brain injuries they claim they suffered during their careers.

Shaking and twisting

In this study, led by the University of Glasgow, scientists analysed the brains of 23 amateur and eight professional rugby players which had been donated for medical research.

With an average playing career of 18 years, 68% of the brains had traces of the brain condition CTE.

Thirteen of the affected brains belonged to club players, not professionals.

And the study calculated that with each extra year of rugby played, there was a 14% increase in the risk of developing CTE.

"It's the shaking and twisting and rotating of the head thousands of times over decades that's likely to cause deep damage in the brain," says Prof Willie Stewart, lead study author from the University of Glasgow.

He compares a head impact in rugby to "a spinning bowl of porridge" where the brain is the wobbly porridge in the middle.

Scottish Rugby welcomed the new study, saying it "supports the important conversations currently underway around the volume of player activity, with the aim of reducing the number of head contacts in our game".

Chief Medical Officer Dr James Robson said practical steps had been taken to improve safety, such as lowering the tackle height and launching a new online concussion education course for coaches, players and parents.

'Important to exercise'

World Rugby recently said that elite women would wear smart mouthguards, which can measure head movements, in an effort to manage concussion from January 2024.

Prof Stewart said reducing head impacts in rugby games and in training was what was needed, but the sport was currently not doing enough to address the problem.

The ex-players' brains in the study were donated to three brain banks - in Glasgow, at the Australian Sports Brain Bank in Sydney and at the Boston University School of Medicine.

With an average age of 60 when they died, most of the former players in the study played rugby before it became professional in 1995.

Prof Tara Spires-Jones, deputy director of the Centre for Discovery Brain Sciences at the University of Edinburgh, said the strongest data linking contact sports to degenerative brain disease still came from professional or elite players.

"Brain injury, such as those that can occur in contact sports, are associated with an increased risk of dementias later in life, however physical activity generally is associated with lower risk of dementias," she said.

"So while it is a good idea to protect your brain by avoiding head injury, it is also very important to exercise."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FHLH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2023 at 13:27
There is also a substantial amount of research into heading in Football (from about 2016 but may be earlier) and, of course, boxing.
"My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote FHLH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2023 at 13:10
American Football  has recognised issues surrounding head injuries, and possibly consequent death, since the early 1900s - a cartoon suggesting fatality appeared in 1908. Cartoons at that time did not imply humour but were also a commentary on life.

The first major investigation by NFL into concussion related injuries started in 1994, publishing results from 2003 onwards eventually stating that there were no negative long-term health consequences associated with concussion.

Subsequent independent research from 2007 onwards challenged that conclusion and reports published as recently as 2014-2017 supported that opposing view.

A 2007 study commissioned by NFL reported that Alzheimer's or similar diseases had been diagnosed 19 times more frequently amongst the sample of retired players. The NFL challenged that report saying it was incomplete.

This is my preçis of a Wikipedia page on Concussions in American Football and is not claimed by me to be accurate.

One question must be whether this or similar research was shared with other contact sports worldwide - I suspect not.


Edited by FHLH - 27 Jul 2023 at 13:19
"My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve@Mose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2023 at 08:23
Concussion: Wales rugby great JPR Williams' fear after study

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Thomas Owens, co-lead investigator on the University of South Wales (USW) study, said research found that retired players with a history of concussion had mild cognitive impairment.

"This is a state whereby the cognitive function of these individuals, in term of the way someone thinks, remembers information, processes that information and co-ordinates the body's movements declines over time, and particularly throughout ageing".

He said this put them at "increased risk of developing neurodegenerative diseases later in life".

But the researchers said not everyone who played contact sports would go on to develop cognitive decline.

...

Scientists at USW's neurovascular research laboratory analysed the brain health of 20 retired players aged between 60 and 80 who had suffered concussions.

For the first time, researchers found they had reduced blood and oxygen flow to the brain due to less nitric oxide, which helps blood vessels regulate blood around the body.

Some exhibited signs of mild cognitive impairment and all were outperformed by the control group in cognitive function tests.

The researchers said this was the first study to determine mechanisms that may cause cognitive decline and has implications for other contact sports.

It is hoped the research may contribute to improving protection for players and help with the introduction of pitch-side blood or saliva tests for concussion.

Mr Owens said: "It's important to note that we don't want to stop players playing rugby, but we want to make them inherently aware of the risks associated with forms of brain trauma and concussion.

"Make them aware, improve the way that we detect concussion at the pitchside and then improve the way we care for players following retirement."

...

There are other studies taking place investigating the health of former players. Lifestyle changes, including poor diet, alcohol dependency and lack of exercise may also accelerate the cognitive decline of former athletes.

USW researchers said they recognised this study had limitations in the relatively small sample size and it relies on participants remembering past concussions.

But they are aiming to carry out a larger study and investigate the potential differences in brain health between male and female athletes in contact sports.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2023 at 18:52
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 2023 at 17:57
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 2023 at 17:44
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote billesleyexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2023 at 10:49
Originally posted by Sid James Sid James wrote:


We see evolution and learning in everything over the years so, can we really point to the past and use today's knowledge to hold it responsible?

How do you determine which hit caused the problem? 

It's not about using today's knowledge to hold the past responsible though, it's about trying to understand if the past's knowledge was applied at the time. If it wasn't, there's a case. The whole thing with tobacco is not 'we know there's a problem now, so we'll hammer the tobacco companies for what they did then', it's 'the tobacco companies knew/suspected more than they let on for a couple of decades so we'll hammer them for the damage done while that was the case.'

What's (potentially rightly) worrying people in rugby is that there *could* be a similar situation - and part of the court case is to get to the bottom of that - or at least start the process. I don't want to fall into lazy 'no smoke without fire' cliches, but people are a bit worried for something where they know no-one's done anything wrong. 

On the second bit, it'll end up being like car insurance. *If* there's actually a case to answer, and to be honest all anyone at the moment is doing is - probably rightly - looking into it, then it'll be at best 'being a rugby player was on the balance of probability a contributory factor', and settlements will have to reflect that.

You're absolutely right that we're probably sailing into the waters of existential crisis at this point, but we can't (and arguably shouldn't) therefore just wish it away.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote WESTCOMBE RANGER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2023 at 10:20
This is a repeat of a post I made back in July last year.
Quote
I suffered a concussion during a game in the early nineties. Didn't have a clue at the time how it happened but I was flat out for about a minute ( so I was told) and was helped off the pitch because I couldn't walk. At that time there had been a guideline issued to all clubs by the RFU which specifically stated that anyone who had been concussed should not be considered for selection for the next 2 weeks. I availed myself of this opportunity to rest which at the time was greeted with mixed views, which I don't think need explaining,
It was only a guideline at the time but what it does show is that, even back then, there was an awareness of this issue and I was not playing at a high level ( and never have ) at the time.  

Unquote
.
The point I would now like to reiterate is that ALL CLUBS would surely have been notified, which begs further questions such as, was this ignored at club level, or even International level, or by the players themselves. Was it just the RFU who offered this advice and the other Home Unions didn't ? 
There will be a lot of digging around to be done before anything gets settled.


Edited by WESTCOMBE RANGER - 29 Mar 2023 at 10:22
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mountain Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2023 at 09:13
Originally posted by Sid James Sid James wrote:

Is the 'duty of care' not covered by the laws if the game?  Head high tackling has always been an offence so, are the match officials partly responsible and, the Clubs for not providing proper medical care in previous years?
We see evolution and learning in everything over the years so, can we really point to the past and use today's knowledge to hold it responsible?

How do you determine which hit caused the problem? How can anyone say with certainty that contact during the game caused the condition? How many players have put their head in a scrum, week after week for years, and have no issues? I would say hundreds of thousands.

Younger rugby players generally go through a phase of playing hard both on and off the field so, in later years can players honestly say that they have never done anything off the field that may have contributed to their condition?

Our game us under serious threat here. Player safety is without doubt important but our game is not our game if you do not accept the contact and the risks involved.


Very well argued Sid, I agree. Clap


Edited by Mountain Man - 29 Mar 2023 at 09:15
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sid James Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2023 at 22:51
Is the 'duty of care' not covered by the laws if the game?  Head high tackling has always been an offence so, are the match officials partly responsible and, the Clubs for not providing proper medical care in previous years?
We see evolution and learning in everything over the years so, can we really point to the past and use today's knowledge to hold it responsible?

How do you determine which hit caused the problem? How can anyone say with certainty that contact during the game caused the condition? How many players have put their head in a scrum, week after week for years, and have no issues? I would say hundreds of thousands.

Younger rugby players generally go through a phase of playing hard both on and off the field so, in later years can players honestly say that they have never done anything off the field that may have contributed to their condition?

Our game us under serious threat here. Player safety is without doubt important but our game is not our game if you do not accept the contact and the risks involved.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2023 at 14:58
I have total sympathy with the players and their families.

There are a number of points to consider.
 
A governing body has a duty of care to its players. The crux of any legal case is when did the RFU etc know of the potential for injury and what did it do about it.  If the dangers were known but nothing was done about it then the legal cases stand a good of winning but on the other hand if the dangers were not known and therefore nothing was done because of this, then it reduces the chance of a succesful claim.  For me of us, this is a 'new injury' and not known to us when we started to play - unlike, for example the chances of a broken leg.  Players accept a certain chance of injuries - would they have played if they knew head injuries could cause dementia? 

Secondly is there a difference between playing as a social amateur (pre 1995) and a semi-pro/professional player post 1995 (talking just Rugby Union here).  For the latter the employer has a duty of care in addition to the governining body; but for the former who other than the RFU etc had a duty of care?  Does that duty of care fall upon the coaching or medical staff who may have insisted a concussed player get back into action. How far down the 'chain' does the responsibility/duty of care lie? 

Does the player share any responsibility - for example knowingly playing on when injured?

Thirdly, how do you separate when the damage was done - was it the first injury in a club game as a amateur, or a third knock playing for your club as a professional or a concussion whilst on international appearance.  How easy is it to understand who is responsible?
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