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OEs withdraw from Nat1

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Rabbie Burns View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rabbie Burns Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: OEs withdraw from Nat1
    Posted: 02 Sep 2021 at 22:16
Scrum time I did speak about this earlier in the thread it’s a big hit but nothing we can do about it so no point in worrying about it. Not sure what you are inferring about OEs demise but it’s not that we have turned it away they have withdrawn from the league

Raider The insurance on tickets is taken out when purchased and the buyer needs to take a view at the time as to the likelihood of there being a problem with the game for example DMP in January pay the premium Leeds in October probably not but it is a gamble
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scrumtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 2021 at 19:26
Originally posted by Rabbie Burns Rabbie Burns wrote:

You can take out insurance on tickets which fully refunds the cost if you cannot use them

Rabbie, that may be, but for a game where Club had 2k plus people as a gate and are rumoured to have taken over £50k through lunch, bar, food stalls etc in the Dec 2019 game (last time clubs played), I thought the departure of OEs would have hurt Blackheath more than most, to turn away that amount of income and you will not be able to claim that back! 


May I suggest that this may have been very short sighted by some, or were they becoming a little more than a noisy neighbour and the loss of income was just a small price to pay?




Edited by Scrumtime - 02 Sep 2021 at 21:31
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 2021 at 19:26
Originally posted by Rabbie Burns Rabbie Burns wrote:

You can take out insurance on tickets which fully refunds the cost if you cannot use them


Probably a bit too late for that though
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rabbie Burns Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 2021 at 10:50
You can take out insurance on tickets which fully refunds the cost if you cannot use them
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote workerbee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 2021 at 09:25
That may well be true, the problem with booking train tickets is two fold , If you leave it late to book there is very little discount , the best time is 12 weeks before you intend to travel to get the maximum. Also if you leave it late there could be a possibility of not getting seating together. In the case of traveling to OE's for 4th September they did not withdraw until one month before when all the tickets had been purchased.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 2021 at 17:47
Originally posted by Monkey Boy Monkey Boy wrote:

Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

There is RFU funding for clubs that suffer losses due to postponed matches.




So the same will apply


Dream on - they withdrew before the season, so I suspect the fixture doesn't exist -so no compensation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monkey Boy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 2021 at 15:02
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

There is RFU funding for clubs that suffer losses due to postponed matches.



So the same will apply
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2021 at 21:19
There is RFU funding for clubs that suffer losses due to postponed matches.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kingsheathlad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2021 at 18:53
No change from BBC for this season. They show OE'S fixture v Caldy next Saturday. 
Cauliflower ear.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monkey Boy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2021 at 15:55
Originally posted by Dalesman Dalesman wrote:

Originally posted by Moseley Mauler Moseley Mauler wrote:

That is more income lost for the remaining clubs......


And if a club has already bought advance train tickets to their away game at OEs - say £3000 worth in a particular case - all non refundable, who compensates them?

What do you do when a game is postponed?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2021 at 18:53
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

I read Scrumtime's post to mean the players, possibly with others,  instigated the action against Paulsen's estate - not they were at fault.




Indeed - why not if they are owed money (only Leeds can get away with that )

As others have said - this is the downside of 1 source of income.

Additional OEs must have paid well to attract the calibration of players they did, hence when the money stops those players move on has the have little loyalty to the club.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2021 at 17:52
I read Scrumtime's post to mean the players, possibly with others,  instigated the action against Paulsen's estate - not they were at fault.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scrumtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2021 at 10:43
I think they are very worried that a lot of other clubs have fallen foul and its only just coming to light.
I think this may have opened a can of worms that they are not happy with, and a lot of other clubs will be under the microscope in the very near future!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote workerbee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2021 at 10:04
For those who run clubs or have a financial interest and who have the stamina the RFU have just released via the Community Clubs Up date  New Financial and Insolvency regulations - Regulation 5 which runs to 10 pages!!. I presume they start up a new department to over see Regulation 5,  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Runitback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2021 at 09:45
I dont think it is fair to blame the players, if they had signed contracts in good faith then the Club should have honoured them or like any business that can not meet its obligations it has to close.

I wonder how you would feel if your employer did the same? This is the Clubs responsibility and again shows the danger of Sugardaddies!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Scrumtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2021 at 06:37
I saw a couple of OE players in the local last Saturday whilst I was watching the game.
I had to ask them the question, to be fair they were gutted but pretty open about it.

It turns out that this was all started by two ex players. Both who left the club on Jan 2020, when the money stopped. One started a wats ap group headed, " I'm going to war on OE's, who is owed what" and then sent it to every player that had left.
Both of these players, who's names are out there for doing this, are now plying their trade elsewhere at local clubs.

Mr Paulsen it seems was not totally the picture that was painted. We all know that Secure Trading went down in May 2019 owing the RFU several millions. He owes the club via Cyber1 (still active and nasdaq listed) a very large sum, although the club is taking legal action to reclaim this, the hearing date has been moved back 3 times due to COVID, the last date it was due to be heard was June but has been moved back to Oct they were saying, that is the "owed sponsorship" in the press announcement, he also owes and has outstanding many debits to many at OEs. That might explain the timing of things!








Edited by Scrumtime - 11 Aug 2021 at 07:07
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2021 at 22:21
I note that Mr Paulsen (deceased) was declared bankrupt on the 13th August 2020 with the petition coming from a Dutch company, Semper Fortuna N.V.

On the other hand, he is still listed as having Active Significant Control over Old Elthamians Rugby XV Ltd.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2021 at 17:53
Unfortunately, OE's didn't own their own ground and had little home support.

So there was little to fall back on when they ceased to get the money from their benefactor.

Their demise was predicted towards the end of the 2019/20 season - provoking vehement denials on this forum from one of their officers - strangely we haven't heard anything from him lately.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rabbie Burns Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2021 at 15:06
It is also what the debts were, were they rugby debts (players wages etc) or running costs rent/utilities etc which there could be a payment holiday for but still has to be paid. As Halliford says it’s a complex business and unless you know the complete picture everything is just speculation
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halliford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2021 at 13:04
The financing of rugby clubs is a complex area. Owning your own ground is a major benefit, generating non-rugby income can often be crucial. Even then a club can be in the same position as many companies are, supporting its working capital through a strong fixed asset. Sweating that asset becomes a key step, as does engagement with members to get their support.

Reducing reliance on individual donors/sponsors is also key - unless they are Trailfinders’ owner with an enlightened long-term funding strategy, you are always focussed on the whims of one or two people and that is dangerous. 

As we move into a new season we are trying to find all sorts of indicators as to how income generation will change - will gates rise, will pre-match lunches sell out, will people stay in the Bar after matches, will they attend Events? Finding the answers to all of those questions will happen in the first few weeks of the season so by Christmas we will have a clearer idea of how our finances will change this season.

Let’s hope the 47 remaining NLR Clubs can get through this early period and continue to show the rest of the game how to run successful rugby clubs.
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