National League Rugby Discussion Forum Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > League Rugby - www.leaguerugby.co.uk > National 2
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Relegation
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

IMPORTANT Remember to read the rules of the board and abide by them when posting.

Relegation

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 4>
Author
Message
NeilSKN View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 05 May 2011
Location: Bristol
Status: Offline
Points: 522
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NeilSKN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Relegation
    Posted: 30 Oct 2021 at 23:48
Can someone answer this simple question please. Is there relegation at level 4 this season?
Back to Top
Camquin View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Location: Cambridge
Status: Offline
Points: 11083
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2021 at 00:08
We do not believe so.
There will be three divisions of 14 at level 4.
So ten extra teams will be required - therefore no relegation.

What we do not know is how many teams will play at level 2 - but we assume more than ten, so there may not be relegation from level 3.


Sweeney Delenda Est
Back to Top
Golden Jackal View Drop Down
First XV regular
First XV regular
Avatar

Joined: 18 Apr 2020
Location: E Anglia
Status: Offline
Points: 144
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Golden Jackal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2021 at 08:05
Whilst we all know why the RFU are determined to split Nat 2 into 3 divisions, Westcliffs results of late show the folly of no relegation. How can shipping over 300 points in their last 4 games be good for them or the league?
Back to Top
PM009 View Drop Down
First XV regular
First XV regular
Avatar

Joined: 07 Jan 2019
Location: Kent
Status: Offline
Points: 69
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PM009 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2021 at 09:12
Will the revised Level 4 still fall under the NCA banner? Be interested to know if they will run with team of 3 officials for example, and if they have resources to cover this?
Back to Top
Camquin View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Location: Cambridge
Status: Offline
Points: 11083
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2021 at 09:33
I believe level 4 will remain with National League Rugby, as the NCA is now called, and will retain teams of three. It is only five of six extra teams of three.

I have no idea who will run the six divisions at level 5.

Sweeney Delenda Est
Back to Top
Oldman1 View Drop Down
First XV regular
First XV regular


Joined: 11 Sep 2019
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 60
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oldman1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 2021 at 08:03
I understand that “teams of three”  are planned for the new level 4 leagues. But no-one has considered where these extra officials ( thought to be about 20 in number) will come from. There is a shortage of referees at all levels, and every “team of three” takes two officials from lower down the league structure. Also I hear are concerns that the number of cancelled league games means the end of season league tables will not give a true picture of clubs strengths. Perhaps those running the show could those of us who pay for it what is happening?
Back to Top
cheshire exile View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 05 Feb 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 2436
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheshire exile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 2021 at 11:34
At least Level 4 knows what the structure will be. Neither the Championship nor Nat 1, to the best of my knowledge, yet know how many clubs will be involved in their league next season.
Back to Top
Halliford View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 17 Feb 2010
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 4134
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halliford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 2021 at 11:56
As I understand it from National League Rugby meetings, etc:

1. Championship numbers for 22/23 will be decided in early 2022 after the end of their consultation.
2. National 1 will reduce to 14 teams, however, whether there is relegation will depend on how many go up to the Championship (If the Championship want a 14-team League then 4 will go up).
3. Winners of National 2 South and North will be promoted to National 1. Play-off between second-place teams may depend on Championship numbers.
4. Level 4 expands to 3 Leagues of 14 through promotion from Level 5.
5. Level 6 expands to 6 Leagues of 12.
6. Refereeing at Level 2/3/4 stays as it is currently so additional Referees and ARs will be needed at Level 4.

There will inevitably be more "cricket scores" as the stronger teams in Level 4 meet the teams coming up from Level 5. I have yet to see Westcliff play, just seen their score, but the quality of rugby from Barnstaple and Rochford Hundred is some way of historic Level 4, IMHO. It will take some time for Level 4 to settle down to competitive Leagues as players decide which Club to join to further their 1st XV ambitions.
Back to Top
cheshire exile View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 05 Feb 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 2436
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheshire exile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 2021 at 13:21
National 1 is already down by one club, of course, with the demise of OEs.
Back to Top
Camquin View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Location: Cambridge
Status: Offline
Points: 11083
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 2021 at 14:44
Level 4 do not know how many teams will be promoted

Frankly, although the RFU structure is officially fixed, I would not bet against changes being made to create a cup including Championship and National league teams.
Sweeney Delenda Est
Back to Top
Raider999 View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 18 Jan 2013
Location: Crawley
Status: Offline
Points: 4421
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 2021 at 17:00
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

Level 4 do not know how many teams will be promoted

Frankly, although the RFU structure is officially fixed, I would not bet against changes being made to create a cup including Championship and National league teams.


Cut league games and potentially add a cup (that very few want) - I cannot see the point of that personally
RAID ON
Back to Top
workerbee View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 20 May 2009
Location: Wirral
Status: Offline
Points: 882
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote workerbee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 2021 at 18:12
The amazing position that level 3 find themselves is as a result of Level 2  clubs not being able to decide on how many clubs they want in their league. At the end of this season they will lose one club probably Ealing to the Premiership leaving them with 10 clubs , which is obviously unsustainable. This has been  known for over a year. At the start of this season they decided to have a 4 month Consultation period in order to decide if they go up to 12, 14 or 16 team league. How difficult is it to make that decision!! Personally I would simply lock the representatives of all 11 clubs into a room and not let them out until they come to their senses and make the decision. As the RFU are cutting the funding to level 2 dramatically cutting the money into 12,14,16 is now less of an issue and clubs will need to have more home games to raise funds from gate and bar income. However while they dither Level three do not know if 2,4,6 are to be promoted and 4 2, or 0 relegated. Do they not know what effect they will have on the whole pyramid below them.
Back to Top
Raider999 View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 18 Jan 2013
Location: Crawley
Status: Offline
Points: 4421
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 2021 at 18:38
Originally posted by workerbee workerbee wrote:

The amazing position that level 3 find themselves is as a result of Level 2  clubs not being able to decide on how many clubs they want in their league. At the end of this season they will lose one club probably Ealing to the Premiership leaving them with 10 clubs , which is obviously unsustainable. This has been  known for over a year. At the start of this season they decided to have a 4 month Consultation period in order to decide if they go up to 12, 14 or 16 team league. How difficult is it to make that decision!! Personally I would simply lock the representatives of all 11 clubs into a room and not let them out until they come to their senses and make the decision. As the RFU are cutting the funding to level 2 dramatically cutting the money into 12,14,16 is now less of an issue and clubs will need to have more home games to raise funds from gate and bar income. However while they dither Level three do not know if 2,4,6 are to be promoted and 4 2, or 0 relegated. Do they not know what effect they will have on the whole pyramid below them.


I'm sure they do - they just seem to be full of their own importance and don't care.

It would be good if the rest of the pyramid just said - no promotion to Championship (or only 1 as normal) - you play another year with short numbers.

Unfortunately, I don't think this will happen
RAID ON
Back to Top
Halliford View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 17 Feb 2010
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 4134
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halliford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 2021 at 18:49
The Cup idea definitely won’t happen. All NLR Clubs have ruled that out so even if Level 2 Clubs wanted it they would have to play themselves. 
Back to Top
Thatbloke View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 02 Sep 2017
Location: Newport
Status: Offline
Points: 1704
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thatbloke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 2021 at 19:39
No mickey mouse cups ffs!!
Think I've got my maths right but if we go 14 team Leagues across the board which makes perfect sense to me (not sure about anyone else) then with OE's demise  we will actually need 13 teams to come up from L5 to L4, so assume top 3 in Reg Prems plus best 4th finisher.
Totally agree with locking up the L2 clubs till they come to a decision - baffles me why the rest of us have to wait till Jan '22 and even then it wouldn't surprise me if they deemed "further consultation necessary" 
Back to Top
sedgley dave View Drop Down
British and Irish Lion
British and Irish Lion


Joined: 03 Apr 2011
Location: Prestwich
Status: Offline
Points: 179
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sedgley dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 2021 at 20:19
Perhaps we should impose our own ring fence in reverse, and refuse to accept Championship clubs coming down. Not this year, I know.

Is it a given that the clubs at the top of Nat 1 (Cinderford, Rosslyn Park, Rams and Sale FC currently) actually want to go into what seems to be a shambolic Championship? Some will, but perhaps not all? Could promotion be 'available' rather than automatic?

Finally, wouldn't it have been better to make the north/south split at level 3 rather than at level 4?

What we have at the moment is so good, it seems perverse to change it. Yes, I know about Westcliff, and these things happen, but week after week almost every match is closely contested, right through our three leagues, though I do think 14 clubs is about right.
Back to Top
Camquin View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Location: Cambridge
Status: Offline
Points: 11083
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 2021 at 20:37
I did not say I liked cups, but enough people on here seem to.
Sweeney Delenda Est
Back to Top
sedgley dave View Drop Down
British and Irish Lion
British and Irish Lion


Joined: 03 Apr 2011
Location: Prestwich
Status: Offline
Points: 179
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sedgley dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 2021 at 21:58
Cups can become part of a club's history and folklore.

Back in 1978(?), Sedgley beat Fylde in the Lancashire Cup, and that became part of our pride and identity, still spoken of today. It mattered not at all that we lost to Broughton Park in the next round.

Years later, we would actually win the Lancashire Cup, fielding our 2nd XV throughout.

In 1998/99 we travelled to Blackheath in the Tetley Bitter National Cup, where we won 22-21. This was huge for us as a club, at the time, especially as Wasps came to Park Lane in the next round.

So yes, let's have Cups. Eventually, you'll get stuffed by someone good, but only once. There's the difference.
Back to Top
Halliford View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 17 Feb 2010
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 4134
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halliford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2021 at 08:01
I dislike Cups and so do the current players. When I ran the 2nd XV at Esher we were the Surrey Cup team but we couldn’t play people who had played more than a certain number of 1st XV matches so my team was half third team players. Yet because it was a Cup match all the Club bigwigs came to watch. When we lost they would complain about the “weak” 2nd XV, not realising it was mainly 3rd XV.

No Cups!
Back to Top
@boatyjames View Drop Down
British and Irish Lion
British and Irish Lion
Avatar

Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 177
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote @boatyjames Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2021 at 08:31
Think you could run a successful cup at Level 3 & 4 (i.e. semi pro level) with first couple of rounds at regional level, then nationwide. Perhaps include level 2 if that becomes semi pro rather than going the other way.
Best match at my club of youth was when Saffron Walden entertained Blackheath (Tony Bond and all) in the JPC 3rd round in the mid 80’s. SW edged the 1st half when Club tried to run the ball and they only prevailed by forward dominance. Made me desperate to represent the Green Army as they called themselves!
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 4>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.04
Copyright ©2001-2021 Web Wiz Ltd.