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Vote on easing rules on player Test team switches

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Steve@Mose View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve@Mose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Vote on easing rules on player Test team switches
    Posted: 03 Nov 2021 at 09:48
World Rugby to vote on easing rules on player Test team switches

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International players will be able to switch nationality if revolutionary changes to eligibility rules are voted through by World Rugby later this month.

Under the new proposals, players will be able to represent the country of their or their ancestors' birth after a three-year stand-down period.

The likes of All Blacks superstar Charles Piutau could represent Tonga as soon as next year in what would be a major boost to Pacific Island nations before the 2023 Rugby World Cup.

The World Rugby council will discuss the proposals at the next meeting on 24 November, with a 75% majority, or 39 of 52 votes, required for the ruling to pass.

...

Under the new plans, a player would be eligible for a nationality switch once they have not played international rugby for three years.

If they then have a "close and credible link" to another country - through birth or the birthplace of parents or grandparents - then they would be able to change nationality. Players would only be able to switch once in their careers.

In theory, it means players like Mako and Billy Vunipola would be eligible to play for Tonga, through their father, if they aren't capped by England between now and 2024, although Billy Vunipola last year ruled this prospect out.

The Fijian-born Bristol number eight Nathan Hughes, who won the last of his 22 England caps in 2019, would then be able to switch to his home country in 2022.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 2021 at 11:50
If we start to allow players a second opportunity to choose which country to represent I believe it is the start of a slippery slope which will turn International rugby into just another form of club rugby, where players have the freedom to move around and look for the best deal. 

Once a player reaches 18 (there is a different argument for those under that age) the player is old enough to understand the long term decision they are making. Let's be honest most decisions are finically driven and the players (and agents!) will make a decision that basis if they have to choose between two or more countries for which they have qualify. A player who has represented the 'All Blacks' is always going to be more of a box-office draw than another player who plays for Fiji/Samoa/Tonga. 

If we believe the press reports about this weeks game, England players will pick up £70,000 whilst Tongans will collect only £500. That is wrong and I see nothing in the new suggestion which would correct that in-balance. If appearance money was more equitable, then players wouldn't necessarily want to play for a bigger nation but would be happier representing the country of their birth or heritage. 

I fear if the plan goes ahead the bigger nations will cap any promising player once (last seconds off the bench even), then renew this every three years to stop the player changing countries. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 2021 at 15:31
Originally posted by Richard Lowther Richard Lowther wrote:

If we start to allow players a second opportunity to choose which country to represent I believe it is the start of a slippery slope which will turn International rugby into just another form of club rugby, where players have the freedom to move around and look for the best deal. 

Once a player reaches 18 (there is a different argument for those under that age) the player is old enough to understand the long term decision they are making. Let's be honest most decisions are finically driven and the players (and agents!) will make a decision that basis if they have to choose between two or more countries for which they have qualify. A player who has represented the 'All Blacks' is always going to be more of a box-office draw than another player who plays for Fiji/Samoa/Tonga. 

If we believe the press reports about this weeks game, England players will pick up £70,000 whilst Tongans will collect only £500. That is wrong and I see nothing in the new suggestion which would correct that in-balance. If appearance money was more equitable, then players wouldn't necessarily want to play for a bigger nation but would be happier representing the country of their birth or heritage. 

I fear if the plan goes ahead the bigger nations will cap any promising player once (last seconds off the bench even), then renew this every three years to stop the player changing countries. 



The difference in payment is huge (however not sure where your £70k comes from - the figure I have seen says £17.5k per person per game, still a lot more than the Tongans.

I think the idea of a 3 year re-qualification is reasonable - many Pacific Islanders have been capped once or twice by NZ and then disappear from selection.

Your fear about renewing the players ineligibility is just an extension of what happens now.

A caveat I would add is that once you have played a certain number of tests then you are no longer able to change (15-20 perhaps?) - reasoning being by that stage you should really know who you want to represent.

Edited by Raider999 - 03 Nov 2021 at 15:32
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheshire exile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 2021 at 15:38
The £70k figure is a per player payment if England win all three Autumn fixtures.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 2021 at 15:44
Originally posted by cheshire exile cheshire exile wrote:

The £70k figure is a per player payment if England win all three Autumn fixtures.


Whereas the £500 payment is per game for Tongans so not like for like.

Unfortunately, this disparity is caused by the Tongan RU not paying a decent level and the RFU being over-generous - do players really need to be paid that much to represent their country??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote French Connection Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 2021 at 12:53
Maybe I'm a bit old school but it's just absolutely outside my comprehension why the RFU pay players to represent England. Do they honestly think that some would refuse to play if there was no payment? I just can't see that happening and in this day and age of cost cutting in the community game the money could be used a lot more effectively. Madness.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 2021 at 17:29
Similar thing to cricket then.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Runitback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 2021 at 17:31
Yes they need to be paid . . . the right amount is another question!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneagainstthehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 2021 at 17:34
Originally posted by French Connection French Connection wrote:

Maybe I'm a bit old school but it's just absolutely outside my comprehension why the RFU pay players to represent England. Do they honestly think that some would refuse to play if there was no payment? I just can't see that happening and in this day and age of cost cutting in the community game the money could be used a lot more effectively. Madness.
These are professionals we’re talking about. It’s out of the question to ask them to risk career ending injury on international duty for no recompense.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote French Connection Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 2021 at 13:11
I believe that all full time professional players are fully insured against career ending injuries incurred in an RFU organised or sanctioned match. The amount of money that some have received in the past is more than generous....hence my point about them not needing to be paid to represent their country.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Count Ford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 2021 at 13:24
Personally I like this idea..as long as it stays strictly for people that are nationals of that second country or direct (parental) connections and doesn't end up including residency. 

 Currently everything is in favour of T1 nations..most of whom have both the sporting and economic power to bring in huge numbers of players from other countries and then integrate them in their system.

Not saying they would necessarily want to, but surely the benefits would be great if people like Dave Ewers or Don Armand were given the chance to play for Zimbabwe if they chose to 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 2021 at 13:52
Originally posted by Count Ford Count Ford wrote:

Personally I like this idea..as long as it stays strictly for people that are nationals of that second country or direct (parental) connections and doesn't end up including residency. 

 Currently everything is in favour of T1 nations..most of whom have both the sporting and economic power to bring in huge numbers of players from other countries and then integrate them in their system.

Not saying they would necessarily want to, but surely the benefits would be great if people like Dave Ewers or Don Armand were given the chance to play for Zimbabwe if they chose to 


More to the point, when is their going to be a limit set on the number of overseas players playing in the UK - particularly in the Premiership.

I was hoping that Brexit would have put a stop to the never-ending imports, particularly South Africans

Give young English talent a chance to play at the top level.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 2021 at 14:39
Regulation 13.4.3 states:

"At Levels 4 and above, a Club may not play or select as a replacement or substitute more than
two Foreign Players in any match."

If you go to th definition of foreign player

"Due  to  the  United  Kingdom  no  longer  being  a  member  of  the  European Union, the RFU is working with stakeholders to determine the position going forwards with regards to the regulatory classification of Foreign Players. Pending agreement on the long term position,  an  interim  position  has  
been agreed for the 2021-22 season only being that the status quo will remain which means that those
players who are or would have been classified as a Non-Foreign prior to 1 January 2021 will retain
such Non-Foreign classification for the 2021-22 season. This applies to all  players  playing  in  the  2021-22 season, including those who are already  playing  in  England  or  yet  to arrive in England for the 2021-22 season. The RFU gives no assurances  that  players  who  are classified  as  Non-Foreign  will  be  able to retain such status from the 2022-23 season onwards. "

I suspect the RFU is waiting on DCMS guidance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve@Mose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2021 at 17:35
World Rugby changes rules to allow players to switch national teams

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A revolutionary change to rugby union's international eligibility rules has been approved by World Rugby.

It means from January 2022 a player will now be able to represent a different country after a stand-down period of three years.

A player can move to a nation of their, their parents' or grandparents' birth, but can only switch allegiance once.

In a surprise move, the ruling was passed on Wednesday by more than 75% of the World Rugby council votes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve@Mose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2022 at 17:31
John Cooney: Ireland scrum-half considering switch to Scotland

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Ireland scrum-half John Cooney is pondering a switch to Scotland next year under World Rugby's new eligibility rules.

Cooney is eligible to play for the Scots, through his family, three years after his last Ireland appearance which came in February 2020.

"I'll make the decision on my own terms and whatever I feel is right for me," said the 32-year-old Ulster player.

"Half of my family live in Scotland and my dad's a proud Scotsman."

Cooney won the last of his 11 international caps as a replacement against England in the Six Nations and does not appear in the frame for a return under coach Andy Farrell.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WEvans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2022 at 15:12
Originally posted by Steve@Mose Steve@Mose wrote:

John Cooney: Ireland scrum-half considering switch to Scotland

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Ireland scrum-half John Cooney is pondering a switch to Scotland next year under World Rugby's new eligibility rules.

Cooney is eligible to play for the Scots, through his family, three years after his last Ireland appearance which came in February 2020.

"I'll make the decision on my own terms and whatever I feel is right for me," said the 32-year-old Ulster player.

"Half of my family live in Scotland and my dad's a proud Scotsman."

Cooney won the last of his 11 international caps as a replacement against England in the Six Nations and does not appear in the frame for a return under coach Andy Farrell.

"Irish rugby no longer wants me so suddenly I'm Scottish"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve@Mose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2023 at 19:00
Women's Six Nations 2023: Ex-Canada prop Mackenzie Carson to start for England

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Former Canada prop Mackenzie Carson will make her England debut against Scotland in the Women's Six Nations on Saturday.

The 24-year-old qualifies for England through her mother and switched countries through World Rugby's birth-right transfer rules.

...

Carson previously played against England in 2018 in one of three Canada caps she earned. She is eligible to join the Red Roses - who are chasing a fifth successive Women's Six Nations title - after spending at least three years away from international rugby.

Carson fills a gap in the front row left because Vickii Cornborough is missing the tournament for personal reasons and Hannah Botterman is injured.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IainS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2023 at 21:40
@Raider999 above: Why would Brexit have put a stop to South Africans playing in England? Confused

Edited by IainS - 23 Mar 2023 at 21:42
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2023 at 07:49
Originally posted by IainS IainS wrote:

@Raider999 above: Why would Brexit have put a stop to South Africans playing in England? Confused

https://churchcourtchambers.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/The-Effects-of-Kolpak-and-Brexit-upon-Cricket-and-Rugby-What-happens-next.pdf
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FHLH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2023 at 13:51
Qualification should stop with passport held. End. None of this grandmother lark.
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