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Elijah Cadman View Drop Down
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Points: 856 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elijah Cadman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2021 at 16:41
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

At least the new level 4 will be run by the NCA/NLR.
As far as I am aware, there is no indication who will run the new level 5.
It cannot be the current DOCs as they will cross division boundaries.

Level 5 will be run by same people who run level 4 NCA/NLR, as i understand it 
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Camquin View Drop Down
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Points: 11116 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2021 at 16:56
But presumably still only get the one appointed ref, with club touch judges?
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Points: 516 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dropout22 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2021 at 17:01
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

But presumably still only get the one appointed ref, with club touch judges?
Always wondered why this is the case at L5
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Camquin View Drop Down
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Points: 11116 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2021 at 17:16
Mainly due to the lack of referees. We do not have spare referees, so each team of three means two matches without referees.
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Points: 4429 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2021 at 18:41
Originally posted by cheshire exile cheshire exile wrote:

Originally posted by Thatbloke Thatbloke wrote:

So we go all the way down the pyramid asking clubs how they would feel about going up a level? That's ludicrous in my opinion - could be as many as 100 clubs involved and what happens even if 1 club says no we don't really fancy it? This is just playing at being "Elite" again. There are clubs far more financially sustainable in Nat1 and 2 without having to rely on central funding. Forget Central funding for the Championship - that boat has sailed


It’s a bit much pointing the finger at the Championship clubs. Let’s assume that the general preference is for 14 clubs and no Cup.
We still don’t know whether the winner of the Championship will be welcomed into the tender bosom of the Premiership and we also have the intended move by London Scottish. Presumably the latter have been given a deadline to sort themselves out.
Depending on the above 2 factors, we don’t know whether the implications for Nat 1 would be 3, 4 or 5 coming up.
If the Nat 1 clubs have clear plans and strategies for the future, then great. There are posters here with much more knowledge of these clubs than me.
Obviously there is even more uncertainty for the clubs in Nat 2, but to be fair there is always some lack of clarity until the end of the season when the relegation and promotion issues are sorted out and the implications for level transfers become clear.
I can remember when the current Nat 2 North leaders were Redruth’s closest away fixture in 2 South.


Sorry, but the Championship sides are way out of order. They need to sort out how many teams they want next season without delay.

Teams in N1 are playing without knowledge of how many will be required for the Championship next year.

As for funding - it wouldn't surprise me if the RFU cut the funding to a minimum (especially as the Championship is no longer an Elite competition) so sides at level 2 should be looking to budget without any RFU payment, then anything they get will be a bonus.
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Thatbloke View Drop Down
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Points: 1712 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thatbloke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2021 at 19:29
Absolutely Raider999 - entirely agree - just what I have been trying to say in numerous posts on this subject - on another matter - a previous poster suggested it would be the "owners" not the clubs who decided what would happen. Are you seriously telling me that all the Championship clubs are run by a "sugar daddy" albeit it of varying wealth and commitment? If so that would explain the impasse, self interest being the sole driver! 
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cheshire exile View Drop Down
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Points: 2445 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheshire exile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2021 at 21:19
My point is that the Championship’s decision will not in itself be enough!
Will the winner of the Championship be promoted? We don’t know.
Are London Scottish off or not? We don’t know.
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Points: 1712 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thatbloke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2021 at 21:26
But that doesn't stop you deciding the number you want to have in your League? Which clubs make up that number is just incidental. The Championship clubs have accused the Prem of being elitist but that is exactly what the Champ clubs are trying to do (Not sure Nat1 clubs will be upto it or if they have the sustainability etc etc) 
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Raider999 View Drop Down
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Points: 4429 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2021 at 21:48
Originally posted by Thatbloke Thatbloke wrote:

But that doesn't stop you deciding the number you want to have in your League? Which clubs make up that number is just incidental. The Championship clubs have accused the Prem of being elitist but that is exactly what the Champ clubs are trying to do (Not sure Nat1 clubs will be upto it or if they have the sustainability etc etc) 


Totally agree, as I have said before, most of the Championship sides have been in N1 or lower within the past 8-10 years.

Notable exceptions (Bedford & Nottingham) - Jersey & Ealing probably a little earlier.
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Raider999 View Drop Down
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Points: 4429 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2021 at 21:53
Originally posted by cheshire exile cheshire exile wrote:

My point is that the Championship’s decision will not in itself be enough!
Will the winner of the Championship be promoted? We don’t know.
Are London Scottish off or not? We don’t know.


No we don't, although it is fairly well acknowledged that the Premiership will add another club for next season. As for London Scottish - they are obviously not good enough for that level.

10 teams in Championship would mean 1 team promoted with Scottish relegated unless they move on.
12 teams add 2
14 teams add another 2

It isn't rocket science so why are the Championship sides making up it so difficult - are they still hanging on to the belief they will get their hundreds of thousands from the RFU - if so the RFU should put them out of their misery and state they are withdrawing funding.
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cheshire exile View Drop Down
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Points: 2445 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheshire exile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2021 at 22:02
Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

Originally posted by Thatbloke Thatbloke wrote:

But that doesn't stop you deciding the number you want to have in your League? Which clubs make up that number is just incidental. The Championship clubs have accused the Prem of being elitist but that is exactly what the Champ clubs are trying to do (Not sure Nat1 clubs will be upto it or if they have the sustainability etc etc) 


Totally agree, as I have said before, most of the Championship sides have been in N1 or lower within the past 8-10 years.

Notable exceptions (Bedford & Nottingham) - Jersey & Ealing probably a little earlier.

I think we (Pirates) have been in the Championship or equivalent since 2003/4.
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Points: 10908 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rothman2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2021 at 23:46
Ealing were promoted from what is now National 1 in 2012/13.

I remember this because the following two seasons we got to the play off semi finals in the championship, and I recall in 2013/14 we beat Ealing 79-9 and they were relegated back to Nat 1 for the 2014/15 season, but bounced back immediately and have been in the Championship since 2015/16.

Nottingham have been back in the Championship since 2004/05.

Penzance & Newlyn (now Cornish Pirates) won the National 2 (now National 1) Championship in 2002/03 and have played at level 2 (as Cheshire Exile said)  since 2003/04.

Bedford lost the Premiership play off to us in 1999/2000 and have been at level 2 ever since. They are currently the longest serving club at that level.
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Points: 1137 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SKalpy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2021 at 00:46
Camquin,

 You posted that Sale FC cannot be promoted from the Championship because of their links with Sale Sharks. This is not true. They are totally separate clubs, although they share a good relationship when it comes to d/r and loan players. Sale FC own Heywood Road and the Carrington complex and are one of the wealthiest members clubs in the country.


Edited by SKalpy - 17 Nov 2021 at 00:47
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Camquin View Drop Down
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Points: 11116 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2021 at 09:21
Skalpy - I know they are legally separate, but I still do not believe it would be acceptable to have both Sale clubs in the Premiership.
I have not been up to Heywood Rd since we avoided relegation a couple of seasons ago, must get back - it is a great place to watch rugby.
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Points: 450 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jimbojetset Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2021 at 13:32
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

Skalpy - I know they are legally separate, but I still do not believe it would be acceptable to have both Sale clubs in the Premiership.
I have not been up to Heywood Rd since we avoided relegation a couple of seasons ago, must get back - it is a great place to watch rugby.

 
Technically there's only one club in Sale, the other one is in Salford :-) 

I'm not sure having two clubs in one geographical area is or ever has been a barrier to being in the Premiership, whether it is sustainable or not is another matter. Sale Sharks already struggle with filling the AJ Bell, whether two stadiums could be filled in the Manchester area would be a challenge given that football will always take precedence on a Saturday afternoon for most of the population here.

However, as we're currently in National One, the idea of being promoted from the Championship is a strange conversation to have.
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Points: 1828 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CJB1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2021 at 14:24
Originally posted by jimbojetset jimbojetset wrote:

Sale Sharks already struggle with filling the AJ Bell ...
Salford RLFC don't do any better, do they?  It's not ideally sited for either team really.
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Points: 1855 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billesleyexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2021 at 14:41
Originally posted by CJB1 CJB1 wrote:

Originally posted by jimbojetset jimbojetset wrote:

Sale Sharks already struggle with filling the AJ Bell ...
Salford RLFC don't do any better, do they?  It's not ideally sited for either team really.

Salford Red Devils are imminently moving to Salford City - who are moving/buying into the AJ Bell... Salford Red Devils will then have primacy of tenure and control of F&B in their own ground, though the 5k capacity doesn't give them much room to grow.

Essentially everyone's moving round one (except Sharks) - the AJ Bell is going to be RU and football, and Salford City are vacating their current ground for RL.


Edited by billesleyexile - 17 Nov 2021 at 14:43
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