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Raider999 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 26 Nov 2021 at 18:55
Originally posted by dave2dave dave2dave wrote:

see intelligence on westcliff vs Guernsey

<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">On the last game. I note that Westcliff borrowed 4 players for Guernsey last week to play the game. Can somebody shed some light on this and tell me how does that work ?  </span>

shows how wrong  / right TRING got it , should have selected 4  or 5 Dorking players and played on, but then comes the problem who pays for what, pay, damages, if loan player get career ending injury et el.




  


Saw that, not sure if they borrowed them from Guernsey or other clubs to play at Guernsey.

Report on Westcliff website just said 4 players made their debut - no other information.

I would imagine Westcliff's insurance would have covered any problems of that nature.
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dave2dave View Drop Down
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see intelligence on westcliff vs Guernsey

On the last game. I note that Westcliff borrowed 4 players for Guernsey last week to play the game. Can somebody shed some light on this and tell me how does that work ?  

shows how wrong  / right TRING got it , should have selected 4  or 5 Dorking players and played on, but then comes the problem who pays for what, pay, damages, if loan player get career ending injury et el.




  
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Robb View Drop Down
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Points: 1492 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2021 at 16:05
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

The original decision may well be harsh.
However, given there is no relegation this season, the five point penalty is entirely nominal.
So what was the upside to the appeal?

It was early in the season and with more promotion spots up for grabs, reasonable to take consideration of the need for points.
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Camquin View Drop Down
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The original decision may well be harsh.
However, given there is no relegation this season, the five point penalty is entirely nominal.
So what was the upside to the appeal?
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Having followed this thread from the start. All so having dealt with disciplinary matters at CB and National league level. I would always contact the CB secretary or National league secretary for guidance before making any meaningful decision. Basically put the ball in their court. 

I have actually had HFM and would not wish it on anyone. All the hard skin came off my hands and feet, to swallow anything was like swallowing acid. I am also old enough to remember when scrum pox was rife
and was also very contagious, referees would stop players playing if it was spotted. 
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dave2dave View Drop Down
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using a sledge hammer to crack a walnut here.
As Count Ford said 
So Trings available actions were:

a) play the game, but put another club at risk and face potentially a more serious punishment.

b) don't play the game and be deducted 5 points. 
correct.

Please advsie for next time the correct answer 
what was the c) your club would have done to be fair to all parties involved
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Lord_Kitchener View Drop Down
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Whilst rules are rules, none cater for the deduction of a 5 point penalty. This is at the discretion of the League Secretary.

His decision was based on the form of consistency and setting an example based on historic precedent.

Sadly we are not in a "normal" season. Based on the specific situation, a walkover win to the oppo and loss of home advantage for the return were sufficient. a 5 point penalty suspended for 2 years would have also tied in to this.

It's the same with CS Stags. What did the 5 point penalty achieve?
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The rules are the rules and it appears have been interpreted to the letter. It does not mean they are right, fair and reasonable, nor does it mean they cannot be changed or adjusted at some time in the future, by reasonable intelligent thinking rule makers. There seems to be a disparity between circumstances and rules surrounding serious contagious diseases, ie Covid and HFM. There is no doubt that Covid is the worse disease to have affected us all since the plague, however HFM should not be minimalised or downgraded in this context, when welfare of players, care and consideration for others, is a major factor in decisions made at the time.
I am a Dorking supporter and I make this controversial view on the matter which is my opinion only.
Given all the circumstances and having read the 'Appeal' document I think Tring have been treated harshly. It was an Away fixture that Tring failed to fulfil for all the reasons stated and the 5pt deduction IMO is right and justified. Its the other bit I find to be excessive, ie losing their home/return fixture, seemingly as an extra layer of punishment. This facet of the rule seems to me (in a reasonable context) to be excessive punishment, over a decision made by Tring with apparently no malice or aforethought involved. 
As a final note I should mention that Tring have been our 'friends' for many years and I hope that no bitterness or bad feelings emerge as a result of this ruling when we play them in December at the Big Field. I am also conscious that Tring have lost their Christmas home fixture in this process, which would have been for them a financial boost for the club.
I do hope that future consideration and careful thought is given by the powers that be to this rule should the same circumstances ever happen again. 
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@boatyjames View Drop Down
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Points: 178 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote @boatyjames Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2021 at 06:56
I think it is harsh on Tring but also harsh on all other clubs in the league. Fact is Tring away is never an easy fixture and one club in the promotion race has been given 5 points instead of playing there!
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So Trings available actions were:

a) play the game, but put another club at risk and face potentially a more serious punishment.

b) don't play the game and be deducted 5 points.

This seems a punishment from an organisation that does not have the good of the game at its heart. I know nothing about Tring or have any affiliation to them but quite frankly I'd be appalled if a team in the L8 league I follow was hit with a similar punishment.

And people wonder why Lancashire decided they'd had enough and would try things their own way
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Originally posted by Count Ford Count Ford wrote:

Can anyone confirm if any clubs have had to postpone matches due to Covid and if they have been deducted 5 points? If not it seems a hugely unfair and arbitrary decision against Tring.  

The covid regulation specifically says that matches only get postponed. 
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Camquin View Drop Down
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Contagious, yes, but not the most serious.




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SurreyRugby View Drop Down
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Hi Thunderpants. You probably know more about how Tring are structured.
I don't know any club at this level with different training for the seniors. Do they also use seperate changing rooms and bar areas too? If this disease is so contagious then the whole tring clubhouse would have to be closed too.
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[QUOTE=MikeGC]Am I being naive ?
Every sympathy for both Clubs but…
Surely, 2nd XV players step into the 1st XV, 3rd XV players step into the 2nd XV, etc. until the lowest senior team at the club postpones their fixture.

Not naive at all Mike,your description of 'how it works' is spot on.  Tring 2nds and 1's train as one squad , the 3's separately. And with all respect to them, very few would be able to step up to the 2's ,let alone the 1's.
It really was from the 22....
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SurreyRugby
Hi. It is unfortunate for Tring. It is noted that Tring played a 3rd team on the Friday evening plus a full programme of junior games on the Sunday. If this disease was so infectious, why did these games take place? I'm a bit confused by Trings abitary actions.

At the time, all squads/juniors were training separately.

Edited by Thunderpants - 14 Nov 2021 at 19:23
It really was from the 22....
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dropout22 View Drop Down
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Looking at Dorking's form anyways, Tring would've at best come away with a LBP - if lucky. 
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dropout22 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

Originally posted by SurreyRugby SurreyRugby wrote:

Hi. It is unfortunate for Tring. It is noted that Tring played a 3rd team on the Friday evening plus a full programme of junior games on the Sunday. If this disease was so infectious, why did these games take place? I'm a bit confused by Trings abitary actions.


Presumably because the outbreak was confined to the first team squad who probably train at different times or separately from the rest of the club.

It is also possible that any other club members who could have been affected through contact with the first team squad were withdrawn from junior fixtures?

Surely at that level all players train together??
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Count Ford View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Thatbloke Thatbloke wrote:

Plenty postponed due to Covid at all levels - no sanctions imposed

Presumably there are specific coronavirus regulations then...but it seems unbelievably self important to have no points deduction for one contagious disease, but a points deduction for another.

Surely a suspended sentence and the forfeit of the game, would have kept the message of the importance of fulfilling fixtures while not unduly punishing the club. 
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Plenty postponed due to Covid at all levels - no sanctions imposed
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edited 100 times 

sometimes best to say nothing.
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