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workerbee View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2022 at 11:09
How Long will it be before the supporters paint themselves with blue woad and dance naked shaking their spears and shields. Surely this will not upset the local Celts
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2022 at 16:04
Originally posted by carlos fandango carlos fandango wrote:

Can anyone enlighten me about the connection between Native Americans and Exeter. I always thought is was a little bizarre that they chose that in the first place.

I have always thought that it was chosen to represent a warrior attitude and to associate with bravery against all odds.  
Ambition should be made of sterner stuff.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2022 at 16:57
No, as said, lots of Devon teams called their 1st XV the chiefs once upon a time. Exeter are just the highest profile and decided to run with it. It's just 'chief side' as in 'top side'/'first team'

Edited by billesleyexile - 28 Jan 2022 at 16:59
keep the faith
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2022 at 18:04
Originally posted by jimbojetset jimbojetset wrote:

So, unlike many here, I'm actually a North American. I hail from Canada and specifically Montreal.
The First Nation on the Island of Montreal is Kanien’kehá:ka, which most of you would call the Mohawk. My family also live in Ontario and my father lives in the Cowichan valley on Vancouver Island. The use of First Nation and Native American imagery for sporting teams has long been an issue in North America. 

Over time, those who've used those images and mascots have started to change. This isn't being Woke. It's about respect. The indigenous populations of North America were treated with appalling disregard over the centuries, initially by the British and French, but also later on by the church and the government where they attempted to create a good Christian/Anglo brand of 1st Nations people and sent their children to residential schools.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Indian_residential_school_system


If you feel that this is the hill you're going to die on, then you've chose a bizarre hill. 


Quite right, well said!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2022 at 20:41
Originally posted by workerbee workerbee wrote:

How Long will it be before the supporters paint themselves with blue woad and dance naked shaking their spears and shields. Surely this will not upset the local Celts

I guess they can then keep the tomahawk chop and call it the spear shake! LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2022 at 22:49
I struggle to understand the attitude "that if I'm not upset by something, then it's not a problem, the World's gone mad/PC/Woke etc"

The Exeter Chiefs name I can understand *but the Native American imagery and actions was bizarre when first thought up never mind now.  If the Native American/Indigenous People/First Nations don't like it for whatever reason they have the right to say so and be listened to.  We are adults but some people have very childish attitudes to this, like they take personal offence but then criticise those that have genuine reasons to be offended and no one can deny the suffering of the Native Americans /Indigenous People/First Nations throughout history. 



*Providing the First team called Chief thing is real, and to be honest I've seen no evidence presented other than heresay. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2022 at 10:34
I'm afraid I have to disagree Richard which will come as no surprise in the light of some of my previous posts. The truth is we can all find something to offend us if we are that way inclined. Although not rugby-related the latest waste of time escapade is taking "Midget Gems" off the shelves for fear of causing offence to the dwarf community. Maybe the best solution is to take a whole host of words out of the English Language and let's all pretend they don't exist any more
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2022 at 11:18
Originally posted by Thatbloke Thatbloke wrote:

I'm afraid I have to disagree Richard which will come as no surprise in the light of some of my previous posts. The truth is we can all find something to offend us if we are that way inclined. Although not rugby-related the latest waste of time escapade is taking "Midget Gems" off the shelves for fear of causing offence to the dwarf community. Maybe the best solution is to take a whole host of words out of the English Language and let's all pretend they don't exist any more

You are proving my previous point that you are offended by these changes but those that are directly affected can't be.
Doesn't it smack of double standards? 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2022 at 11:56
I cannot see why teams need anything other than their name, why do we need Chiefs, Sharks, Falcons,, Tigers, Saints Warriors or any other additional word, I see it as purely a marketing ploy which makes no difference to many rugby followers, the teams will always just be Exeter, Sale, Newcastle, Leicester, Northampton and Worcester to me. 
If Rugby is the game they play in Heaven ..... Why does it hurt like Hell when you retire?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2022 at 12:03
Originally posted by Puli. Puli. wrote:

I cannot see why teams need anything other than their name, why do we need Chiefs, Sharks, Falcons,, Tigers, Saints Warriors or any other additional word, I see it as purely a marketing ploy which makes no difference to many rugby followers, the teams will always just be Exeter, Sale, Newcastle, Leicester, Northampton and Worcester to me. 

There is a difference between those that always had a suffix, mainly due to how they were founded, to those who adopted one post professionalism for marketing reasons. Leicester Tigers fit into the former, Exeter Chiefs the latter. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2022 at 19:29
I've never liked these stupid American  football style names for rugby teams and was left scratching  my head and laughing when Bristol became the Bears 
I've got a mate who's from Bristol  and he was gutted when they were the latest club to follow this trend and ripped up their famous coat of arms badge and replaced it with winnie the poohs angry uncle
Having said that it's even more ridiculous  what's gone on at Exeter being scared stiff of the woke pc snowflake brigade and changing their badge in case it offends someones shadow🤦‍♂️
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2022 at 21:58
Absolutely Havant Tony - I'm with you as you will see from my previous posts on this thread. Many disagree but I'm convinced that YES the World HAS gone mad
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2022 at 07:06
Originally posted by Thatbloke Thatbloke wrote:

Absolutely Havant Tony - I'm with you as you will see from my previous posts on this thread. Many disagree but I'm convinced that YES the World HAS gone mad

And while both of you may have read what JimboJetSet wrote previously, you don't see his argument as a legitimate one? As JJS concluded, what a bizarre choice of hill to die on...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2022 at 07:29
Originally posted by HAVANT TONY HAVANT TONY wrote:

I've never liked these stupid American  football style names for rugby teams and was left scratching  my head and laughing when Bristol became the Bears 
I've got a mate who's from Bristol  and he was gutted when they were the latest club to follow this trend and ripped up their famous coat of arms badge and replaced it with winnie the poohs angry uncle
Having said that it's even more ridiculous  what's gone on at Exeter being scared stiff of the woke pc snowflake brigade and changing their badge in case it offends someones shadow🤦‍♂️

A few questions for you. 

1) Why does the proposed change OFFEND you so much? Are you a snowflake for being offended? 
2) How you define Woke and Snowflake?
3) What does the" Indian" headdress/wigwam bar/Tomahawk chop have to do with Rugby?
4) Does changing the branding affect how Exeter play rugby? 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2022 at 10:49
Richard, I am with you 100% on this. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2022 at 11:11
I've yet to understand why certain people consider the term 'woke' to be an insult, which is how many seem to use it.
To be awake to the injustices and dangers of racism is a good thing in my book.
Call me woke as much as you like.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2022 at 11:45
OK let's take this to its logical conclusion
Wigan/Worcester "Warriors" - change the name offensive to pacifists
Salford Red "Devils" - change the name offensive to the religious
Just two off the top of my head, I'm sure there are many others. 
The whole issue goes far beyond rugby, and sport in general for that matter, and it is very much a political matter across a much wider spectrum but anyone venturing into that area gets a swift admonishment (from you Richard!) The whole thing has gone too far and it just gets more ridiculous as the days go by
But at risk of said admonishment I'll tell you what offends me
- people tearing down statues
- the British legal system then saying that's OK if you don't agree with what they stand for (under review I accept) but probably grounds for tearing down every statue in the UK I suspect
- positive discrimination
- quotas to tick boxes on the grounds of diversity
- constantly apologising for our history 
- pandering to minority groups
- the end of freedom of speech 
- Midget Gems being taken off the shelves
- And a question - If things were indeed so bad at Yorkshire cricket that it became unbearable why on earth would you go back for a second helping? 
I could go on.......... 
I was having a conversation with some fish last week who said they were offended that 3 fish appeared on our club logo. After a thorough investigation and analysis of the possible offence being caused we decided to replace the fish with feathers but now the bloody chickens are complaining!!
Rant over - I await my admonishment 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2022 at 12:13
Originally posted by Thatbloke Thatbloke wrote:

OK let's take this to its logical conclusion
Wigan/Worcester "Warriors" - change the name offensive to pacifists
Salford Red "Devils" - change the name offensive to the religious
Just two off the top of my head, I'm sure there are many others. 
The whole issue goes far beyond rugby, and sport in general for that matter, and it is very much a political matter across a much wider spectrum but anyone venturing into that area gets a swift admonishment (from you Richard!) The whole thing has gone too far and it just gets more ridiculous as the days go by
But at risk of said admonishment I'll tell you what offends me
- people tearing down statues
- the British legal system then saying that's OK if you don't agree with what they stand for (under review I accept) but probably grounds for tearing down every statue in the UK I suspect
- positive discrimination
- quotas to tick boxes on the grounds of diversity
- constantly apologising for our history 
- pandering to minority groups
- the end of freedom of speech 
- Midget Gems being taken off the shelves
- And a question - If things were indeed so bad at Yorkshire cricket that it became unbearable why on earth would you go back for a second helping? 
I could go on.......... 
I was having a conversation with some fish last week who said they were offended that 3 fish appeared on our club logo. After a thorough investigation and analysis of the possible offence being caused we decided to replace the fish with feathers but now the bloody chickens are complaining!!
Rant over - I await my admonishment 

And another example of double standards and you are failing to see it. 

You are entitled to your view and to complain ( but then you are in danger of being labelled a "snowflake") but you don't think that other people with an opposite view to yours have the same rights - they are being "woke" etc. 

If these things upset you and there was a way to do something so they no longer upset you, would you make the change and remove the thing that upset you? [For example would you feel better if statues were no longer being toppled?]

This is the crux of the Exeter Chief argument. All the ridiculous branding/actions upsets a community who are on the end of racial intolerance - Native Americans being on the receiving end of people doing 'Tomahawk chops'/'Indian cries' etc in front of them because this is how films etc have portrayed 'Indians' as savages. 

It upsets them and in the year 2021 shouldn't be a thing.  No one can surely defend such events. 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2022 at 12:26
Originally posted by Richard Lowther Richard Lowther wrote:

....

It upsets them and in the year 2021 shouldn't be a thing.  No one can surely defend such events. 


But what about in the year 2022?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2022 at 12:27
I'll tell you what offends me
- people tearing down statues
- the British legal system then saying that's OK if you don't agree with what they stand for (under review I accept) but probably grounds for tearing down every statue in the UK I suspect
- positive discrimination
- quotas to tick boxes on the grounds of diversity
- constantly apologising for our history 
- Midget Gems being taken off the shelves

I’m with you on these Thatbloke

In my eyes there is no justification for either negative or positive discrimination
and the statue being thrown in the Bristol docks is pure vandalism which disgusts me. 

As for rugby clubs being given names like Bears, Chiefs, Saxons etc I’ve never felt the need to take the names very seriously. I still just refer to them as Bristol, Exeter, Southend. 




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