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Title race
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islander View Drop Down
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    Posted: 06 Mar 2022 at 16:06
Hotting up nicely, and after Ealing win's yesterday I am officially a neutral, since it is mathematically impossible for the Reds to win the league. Which leaves:

Table
  1. Donny 67 pts (2 to play) 15 wins/ 0 draws
  2. Ealing 65 (3) 13 wins/ 0 draws
  3. Pirates 63 (4) 13 wins/ 1 draw
Fixtures
  • 12/3 - Donny v Pirates + Ampthill v Ealing
  • 19/3 - Pirates v Hartpury
  • 26/3 - Ealing v Pirates
  • 2/4 - Pirates v Ampthill + Ealing v Richmond + Nottingham v Donny
People might think there were some bankers among those games ie the ones not in bold, but suspect Ampthill, Hartpury, Richmond & Nottingham may fancy upsetting the odds.

Who needs what?
  • Donny - it's out of their hands, they just need to aim for 2 wins, ideally both with BPs, & hope their eventual total is enough. 17 wins would ensure they won any tie-breaker
  • Ealing - 3 wins & 15 pts would put them on 80 & secure the title, as long as they don't allow Pirates more than 1 BP in defeat
  • Pirates - 3 wins & 15 points from 4 games would put them on 78 and secure the title, as long as 1 of the wins is against Ealing
If Ealing and Pirates finish level on points and wins, I believe Pirates would win a tie-breaker on games drawn.

Checked this over, but if my calculations are flawed, let me know...
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dropout22 View Drop Down
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I'd say Pirates as faves for me.
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Originally posted by dropout22 dropout22 wrote:

I'd say Pirates as faves for me.
I suspect that's what the RFU is praying for, then they won't have to worry about a long drawn out legal challenge over the summer.
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Looking at it guys who would have thought it would come down to the last few matches? 

There are a number of permutations that make it possible for any of the three to win. I like the thought of Ealing vs Pirates being a slug fest 14 all draw, we naturally retain our fortress Castle Park crown and then it comes down to the last Saturday (but then I dream)
Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny!
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It's a bit strange for me, as a Pirate. Obviously I'd love for us to win the league - it would be an outstanding achievement for a relatively young squad, especially with the injuries we've had to some key players. We have two very tough away games (Donny and Ealing) - to win one of them would be good, to win both would be an incredible achievement. Thing is, if we don't win it, I'd love to see Donny do it - no disrespect to Ealing. I think Donny is a great club with a lovely stadium and really good people. As others have said if Pirates win it takes the pressure of the RFU. Having said that I wonder if the legal challenge would be underway before anything is certain regarding who wins the league. A judgement against the ridiculous restraints the RFU are imposing would be brilliant for all the clubs outside the cosy Premiership cartel. 
On another note, a worrying article in the Rugby Paper suggests The Pirates may be considering going part time. The club have said nothing is decided and the management are talking things through with Dicky Evans to find the most sustainable way forward for the club. 
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Points: 2972 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote castleparknight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 2022 at 22:35
I have seen this article Stalwart and I was saddened to hear this news. I hope that it comes to nothing because I do feel that Pirates deserve a tilt at the Prem - I thought the plans would be in place once the stadium was in place. Good luck with that, enjoy the season all the way to the end, I know I am, and I am hoping that it comes down to the final weekend.

On a side note I have my accommodation booked for the cup game in April, hoping for balmy Spring weather for the whole weekend 
Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny!
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Both of the Pirates home games are being streamed. Are Donny and Ealing planning to stream any of their fixtures?
Dont kick it. Pick it up and GO FORWARD.
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Still think Ealing are favourites. If they beat pirates, they should win. Otherwise, likely the winner of Doncaster vs pirates. So basically, if pirates manage to win this weekend, then Ealing vs pirates likely title decider. If Doncaster win (which I think they will), then Doncaster will win if pirates beat Ealing.

Ealing: 79
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Pirates: 74
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I just keep thinking of Ealing's decision not to kick for the tie at the end of their match against Pirates. 3 point swing in the table...
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Points: 2972 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote castleparknight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 2022 at 18:31
Yeah we had a few of those moments early on in the season, going for the corner instead of the posts, and then fluffing our line out. We sacrificed a good few points that way, not always for a W but for a losing BP in some instances (#frustrated). I think the lads were young, slightly naive and eager to play rugby non-stop.

Edited by castleparknight - 07 Mar 2022 at 18:33
Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny!
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I don’t know who are favourites but whoever wins the league this year deserves it because it’s been the most competitive league in years. I think if Pirates can beat Donny this weekend then they may just do it. From a Donny perspective, I hope the decision from the RFU puts even more fire in our bellies and we use it as a motivator, like Ealing did last week. Nothing against Pirates because I think they are a fantastic club that deserve Premiership rugby, but I think for the good of the league we need Donny or Ealing to top the table. If Pirates win it then it lets the RFU off the hook. I want to see the MSC challenged and beaten. 

Edit: Hopefully the rumour about Pirates going part-time isn’t true. I saw the statement that was put out by the club and they didn’t pour cold water on the rumours. Going part-time now would go against everything that CP have said about wanting Premiership Rugby, would it be an acknowledgment that the stadium isn’t going to happen?. 


Edited by Donnyknightfan - 08 Mar 2022 at 07:48
Donny Knights - best team in Yorkshire
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Quote Donnyknightfan: "
Hopefully the rumour about Pirates going part-time isn’t true. I saw the statement that was put out by the club and they didn’t pour cold water on the rumours. Going part-time now would go against everything that CP have said about wanting Premiership Rugby, would it be an acknowledgment that the stadium isn’t going to happen?"
We'll have to wait to see what the club come up with. What we do know is that it will always be a priority to keep the club financially sustainable - I thtat means going part time I guess that's the harsh reality. It is so frustrating that we have a real chance of winning this league with a very talented and committed group, but the 12 year wait for the stadium goes on. I hope we're not at the end of the journey. 
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Points: 430 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote marigold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 2022 at 10:31
Stalwart I agree CP is a fantastic club and have punched hugely above their weight over many years. However if Premiership clubs based in large cities struggle to attract enough crowds, sponsorship and income to remain financially viable I am really not sure how CP could do that given they are based in a beautiful but economically deprived area of the UK. 
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There advantage over Exeter would be not competing with Exeter City FC and only with other Rugby clubs.
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Originally posted by marigold marigold wrote:

Stalwart I agree CP is a fantastic club and have punched hugely above their weight over many years. However if Premiership clubs based in large cities struggle to attract enough crowds, sponsorship and income to remain financially viable I am really not sure how CP could do that given they are based in a beautiful but economically deprived area of the UK. 

That is the reason for the endless strive to get the stadium built in Truro. A more central location and a partnership with Truro College who would use the facility as part of their catering and hospitality department - so using the stadium almost every day of the year.
I think there is the potential for attracting big numbers if we were in the Premiership. The future has always hinged on the stadium project and it seems to have stalled yet again - I just hope it's not the end of the journey this time.
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Originally posted by Donnyknightfan Donnyknightfan wrote:

Going part-time now would go against everything that CP have said about wanting Premiership Rugby, would it be an acknowledgment that the stadium isn’t going to happen?. 

Isn't it more likely to be an indication that even with the stadium, the RFU are doing everything possible to pull the drawbridge up? It would be a brave club that starting spending money on 10,001 seater stadiums, players, etc, to prove a point. And ruinously expensive until you win promotion. My own personal view, and I say this as a fan of a club and city that I would love to see back at the top table, is that things have now moved on so far and so fast that you basically need a billionaire to ensure you get to the Premiership and stay there. That would include spending £20m on Premiership shares to secure full rights, building a stadium, spending up to the cap a season before you go up, investing in and building an academy, etc, to say nothing of probably the need for a fighting fund for repeated legal battles (like getting at least Cornwall as an academy area off the current holders).

Anything short of that is hosing money to have a tilt for a season or two then crash out and potentially ruin the club (financially). Basically, going up to the Premiership has been engineered to be free to those that can afford it, and very expensive to those that can't.
keep the faith
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Spot on Billesleyexile
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Originally posted by billesleyexile billesleyexile wrote:

Originally posted by Donnyknightfan Donnyknightfan wrote:

Going part-time now would go against everything that CP have said about wanting Premiership Rugby, would it be an acknowledgment that the stadium isn’t going to happen?. 

Isn't it more likely to be an indication that even with the stadium, the RFU are doing everything possible to pull the drawbridge up? It would be a brave club that starting spending money on 10,001 seater stadiums, players, etc, to prove a point. And ruinously expensive until you win promotion. My own personal view, and I say this as a fan of a club and city that I would love to see back at the top table, is that things have now moved on so far and so fast that you basically need a billionaire to ensure you get to the Premiership and stay there. That would include spending £20m on Premiership shares to secure full rights, building a stadium, spending up to the cap a season before you go up, investing in and building an academy, etc, to say nothing of probably the need for a fighting fund for repeated legal battles (like getting at least Cornwall as an academy area off the current holders).

Anything short of that is hosing money to have a tilt for a season or two then crash out and potentially ruin the club (financially). Basically, going up to the Premiership has been engineered to be free to those that can afford it, and very expensive to those that can't.
Good post mate but it makes me think of Leeds who had a magnificent Stadium and Academy facilities and still couldn't get more than a few hundred through the turnstiles for a play-off match against London Welsh. Money is always the problem but supporters always want someone else with deep pockets to pay to fund the step up. I hope it works out that way for Donny or Ealing this year and for Pirates one day. 
Dont kick it. Pick it up and GO FORWARD.
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Originally posted by Stalwart Stalwart wrote:

It's a bit strange for me, as a Pirate. Obviously I'd love for us to win the league - it would be an outstanding achievement for a relatively young squad, especially with the injuries we've had to some key players. We have two very tough away games (Donny and Ealing) - to win one of them would be good, to win both would be an incredible achievement. Thing is, if we don't win it, I'd love to see Donny do it - no disrespect to Ealing. I think Donny is a great club with a lovely stadium and really good people. As others have said if Pirates win it takes the pressure of the RFU. Having said that I wonder if the legal challenge would be underway before anything is certain regarding who wins the league. A judgement against the ridiculous restraints the RFU are imposing would be brilliant for all the clubs outside the cosy Premiership cartel. 
On another note, a worrying article in the Rugby Paper suggests The Pirates may be considering going part time. The club have said nothing is decided and the management are talking things through with Dicky Evans to find the most sustainable way forward for the club. 
I would prefer Doncaster Knights to succeed over Cornish Pirates. They eek everything from their squad and have their own home ground. The fans are prepared to travel and are real enthusiastic fans.
The stadium for Cornwall had too many false starts especially on here.Being reliant on Government money before the Covid pandemic was a difficult and uphill task. After two years of minimal tourism in Cornwall any Government funds will be redirected to needier causes in Cornwall. TY

 


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Originally posted by No 7 No 7 wrote:

Originally posted by Stalwart Stalwart wrote:

It's a bit strange for me, as a Pirate. Obviously I'd love for us to win the league - it would be an outstanding achievement for a relatively young squad, especially with the injuries we've had to some key players. We have two very tough away games (Donny and Ealing) - to win one of them would be good, to win both would be an incredible achievement. Thing is, if we don't win it, I'd love to see Donny do it - no disrespect to Ealing. I think Donny is a great club with a lovely stadium and really good people. As others have said if Pirates win it takes the pressure of the RFU. Having said that I wonder if the legal challenge would be underway before anything is certain regarding who wins the league. A judgement against the ridiculous restraints the RFU are imposing would be brilliant for all the clubs outside the cosy Premiership cartel. 
On another note, a worrying article in the Rugby Paper suggests The Pirates may be considering going part time. The club have said nothing is decided and the management are talking things through with Dicky Evans to find the most sustainable way forward for the club. 
I would prefer Doncaster Knights to succeed over Cornish Pirates. They eek everything from their squad and have their own home ground. The fans are prepared to travel and are real enthusiastic fans.
The stadium for Cornwall had too many false starts especially on here.Being reliant on Government money before the Covid pandemic was a difficult and uphill task. After two years of minimal tourism in Cornwall any Government funds will be redirected to needier causes in Cornwall. TY

 


The S4C team were “relying on government money” because it was explicitly promised by Cameron when he was PM.
Billesleyexile sums up the problems for aspiring clubs extremely well.
As to potential support in Cornwall, it is worth pointing out that Pirates’ current home crowds are equivalent to those of Ealing and Donny combined. In fact Redruth, at level 4, attract home crowds very similar to Ealing’s. The support would be there but the opportunity is rapidly receding over the horizon.
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