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National level 4: NATIONAL TWO PROPOSED STRUCTURE |
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Rothman2 
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Rotherham Joined: 20 Jan 2010 Location: Location Status: Online Points: 10950 |
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 Posted: 14 Mar 2022 at 23:17 |
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Looking forward to some great local derbies next season against the likes of Guernsey Barnstaple Canterbury and possibly Redruth. Be nice to get a nice lie in instead of getting up at the crack of dawn for trips to Sheff Tigers and Huddersfield.
Luxury😜
Edited by Rothman2 - 14 Mar 2022 at 23:17 |
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As one door closes…….another one slams in your face.
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Camquin
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Joined: 01 Jun 2007 Location: Cambridge Status: Offline Points: 11121 |
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Posted: 15 Mar 2022 at 00:09 |
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To go back to my envelope, there are 15 teams from the current Northern division likely to be at level 4 next season. From Nat 2 North 11 teams Sedgley Park Fylde Rotherham Hull Ionians Tynedale Sheffield Tigers Wharfedale Huddersfield Blaydon Harrogate Chester plus currently: Sheffield 2nd in Midland Premier Otley 1st in North Premier Preston G 2nd in North Premier Blackburn 2nd best 3rd pace team That assumes Hull are promoted, and no Northern side is relegated from level 3. There are only six teams from the Midlands division, Luctonians -> SW Stourbridge -> SW Bournville -> SW Loughborough Students -> L&SE Leicester Lions (level transferred to Nat 2 S) -> L&SE Newport (Salop) currently top of Midlands premier. ->SW South West - eight teams Redruth Henley Clifton Dings Barnstaple Exeter University 1st in SW rem Hornets 2nd in SW rem Old Redcliffians 3rd in SW Prem and best place 3rd place team London 12 teams Tonbridge Juddians - relegation from Nat 1 Worthing Bury St Edmunds Guernsey Old Albanian Barnes Canterbury Hinckley Rochford Hundred Westcliff Dorking 1st in London prem Sevenoaks 2nd in London prem There is one more side to be relegated. I suspect Worthing or Guernsey will need to go West. I am not sure who goes West if Worthing get promoted instead of Esher. This just emphasizes how strong the Northern Division is, with over a third of the sides.
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Sweeney Delenda Est
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Rothman2
World Cup Winner
Rotherham Joined: 20 Jan 2010 Location: Location Status: Online Points: 10950 |
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Posted: 15 Mar 2022 at 02:12 |
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Or how stupid the idea of changing the current structure is.
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As one door closes…….another one slams in your face.
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Mrs Oliphant
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Joined: 23 Oct 2012 Location: Belbroughton Status: Offline Points: 433 |
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Posted: 15 Mar 2022 at 07:36 |
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....and no Christmas derbies ??
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sedgley dave
British and Irish Lion 
Joined: 03 Apr 2011 Location: Prestwich Status: Offline Points: 183 |
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Posted: 15 Mar 2022 at 08:29 |
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Amazing, Camquin, we do the same calculations and get the same answers!
Yes, the North is 'strong' at this level, and the Midlands appears 'weak', in terms of level 4 clubs. However, there is scarcely a northern presence at all at levels 1 or 2, to put alongside Leicester Tigers, Northampton, Wasps, Bedford, Coventry, Nottingham. [I'm a bit vague about Ampthill's location.] Generally, the current level 4 clubs split fairly evenly through the 3 proposed areas. So it could work, with a bit of common sense. 11/32 or 12/32 is only just over one third for t' grim north. And yes, Rothman, why change something that works so well? If it ain't broke don't fix it. But John Inverdale says it is broke(n), so what do we know? He could have a point. A lot of the minor Lancashire clubs have opted out of the RFU pyramid and formed local, cricket-style, leagues. Is this a problem, if they're happy with who they are, and where they are?
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Camquin
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Joined: 01 Jun 2007 Location: Cambridge Status: Offline Points: 11121 |
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Posted: 15 Mar 2022 at 09:31 |
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Dave, did you miss the last six years discussion. I think everyone on this board agrees it is not broken at level 3 and 4. However, the Lancashire breakaway, mainly over travel to Cumbria, shows there were problems at lower levels. The RFU was looking to reduce travel payments and used this as an excuse. There was also a move from DoRs and some players to reduce the number of games, hence the drop from 16 to 14 teams. However,
nobody at the RFU seems to want to do the detail, actually reducing
travel at level 7,8 & 9 would mean completely upending the structure
and tearing up the current leagues - and therefore probably the CBs.
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Sweeney Delenda Est
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Wigwam
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Joined: 23 Feb 2012 Location: The sunny south Status: Offline Points: 1155 |
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Posted: 15 Mar 2022 at 09:41 |
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If player welfare is at the heart of this restructure why didn’t they just reduce the league size to 14 and keep the two divisions of north and south ??? Later season start earlier season finish more gaps between groups of matches or a combination of all doesn’t that make more sense ??
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Pace Power Perfection
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Tyke
British and Irish Lion
Joined: 17 Jul 2009 Location: Sussex Status: Offline Points: 286 |
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Posted: 15 Mar 2022 at 10:55 |
I am both shocked and stunned that you have introduced "sense" into something involving the RFU!! |
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If only Webb-Ellis hadn't given them the ball back!
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Thunderbird
British and Irish Lion
Joined: 11 Sep 2013 Location: East Anglia Status: Offline Points: 171 |
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Posted: 15 Mar 2022 at 11:28 |
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CQ.......That is very similar to my "back of fag packet " calculation.
 It will certainly cut our travel distance down.I can see a lot of pain for some of the promoted clubs. How the powers that be can say it will not dilute the strength of the league is beyond me. |
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Wigwam
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Joined: 23 Feb 2012 Location: The sunny south Status: Offline Points: 1155 |
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Posted: 15 Mar 2022 at 11:32 |
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Yes, ok good point and I can only apologise for assuming common sense should be applied by the governing bodies of rugby. At times I wonder if they all come from the planet Zorg as they seem alien to the rest of us.
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Pace Power Perfection
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Thunderbird
British and Irish Lion
Joined: 11 Sep 2013 Location: East Anglia Status: Offline Points: 171 |
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Posted: 15 Mar 2022 at 11:34 |
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To continue regarding the restructure.
One of the clubs listed in Nat 2 SE were adamant that they would not go to Guernsey!!! whatever the RFU threatened them with. Apparently they have already informed the.  Good luck with that.
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Kentish Man
British and Irish Lion
Joined: 29 Aug 2018 Location: Kent Status: Offline Points: 156 |
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Posted: 15 Mar 2022 at 13:07 |
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Which Club? as my Club love the Guernsey weekend experience.
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Thunderbird
British and Irish Lion
Joined: 11 Sep 2013 Location: East Anglia Status: Offline Points: 171 |
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Posted: 15 Mar 2022 at 13:28 |
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I would not be advisable for me to divulge that information.
We too like the trip to Guernsey, but after a few times it can get a bit 'here we go again. In the past it has always been in the middle of winter. With the RFU wanting us to fly in and out in one day. Which is just not possible. We spend the rest of the season trying to negate the problems long journeys can cause only for those who are paid to do a job trying to force us there and back in one day. We only get £2000 which doesn't cover the cost of an overnight stay. I could go on and on. Re funding, timings and times of the year.
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billesleyexile
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Joined: 20 Jun 2013 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 1855 |
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Posted: 15 Mar 2022 at 13:28 |
I've messaged you
Edited by billesleyexile - 15 Mar 2022 at 13:31 |
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keep the faith
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stato
First XV regular 
Joined: 02 Apr 2019 Location: Nottingham Status: Offline Points: 78 |
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Posted: 15 Mar 2022 at 13:44 |
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I did this early Feb, so promotion and relegation positions likely to have changed since then, they were as the leagues were on that particular weekend North Tynedale, Wharfedale, Huddersfield, Harrogate, Blaydon, Sheffield Tigers, Sedgley Park, Fylde, Rotherham, Otley, Preston, Blackburn, Chester, Hull Ionians South East Worthing, Barnes, Canterbury, Rochford, Bury, Esher, Tonbridge, Hertford, Sevenoaks, Dorking, OAs, Henley, Leicester Lions, Westcliff South West Redruth, Dings, Barnstaple, Loughborough Students, Exeter Uni, Newport Salop, Bridgnorth, Old Reds, Hornets, Luctonians, Bournville, Stourbridge, Guernsey, Hinckley
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Raider999
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Joined: 18 Jan 2013 Location: Crawley Status: Offline Points: 4430 |
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Posted: 15 Mar 2022 at 14:54 |
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Whatever happens I am sure there will be a number of clubs who will be unhappy at the league they are placed in.
The N2 conundrum will be eased if Redruth are promoted as that will reduce the mileage for everyone else in the SW division. One thing, does anyone know if the usual mileage calculations will be used to determine the make-up of the 3 N2 divisions? Edited by Raider999 - 15 Mar 2022 at 14:57 |
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RAID ON
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Thunderbird
British and Irish Lion
Joined: 11 Sep 2013 Location: East Anglia Status: Offline Points: 171 |
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Posted: 15 Mar 2022 at 15:18 |
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Most recently Google Maps.
But as this is the RFU it could be anything.  Some of their calculations make no sense at all. |
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Thatbloke
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Joined: 02 Sep 2017 Location: Newport Status: Online Points: 1714 |
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Posted: 15 Mar 2022 at 15:22 |
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I have the latest RFU "projections" upto and including league tables as at 5th March (so just missing last Sat's results) If anyone wants to see it PM me with your email address and I will forward and sorry but yes Chester in the South West!?
Edited by Thatbloke - 15 Mar 2022 at 15:23 |
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Mr KFC
First XV regular
Joined: 05 Feb 2016 Location: Barnstaple Status: Offline Points: 71 |
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Posted: 15 Mar 2022 at 16:11 |
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Certainly some interesting, and lengthy new trips potentially in line for us down here in Barnstaple! Ah, well always good to make new friends I guess!! |
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Red over White
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Otley Joined: 22 May 2007 Location: Baildon Status: Offline Points: 340 |
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Posted: 15 Mar 2022 at 18:07 |
We know from http://www.ncarugby.com/national-1/national-league-rugby-statement-promotion-and-relegation-from-national-one/ that two sides will be relegated. Your supposition that no Northern side (Leeds or Darlington MP) is fine from a northern perspective, but it also means that you need to find another southern team to go down with Tonbridge Juddians, current candidates are Plymouth Albion or Blackheath and put them into the equation. I don't think we will know who the other relegation contender will be until the Leeds v Plymouth Albion game on 16 April is played. A 5 point win by Leeds over Darlington MP this Saturday won't lift Leeds any higher up the league, but it will put them on the same number of points as Plymouth and Darlington. Edited by Red over White - 15 Mar 2022 at 19:35 |
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Wigwam wrote: