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Worcester winding up order
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Red over White View Drop Down
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Otley

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Points: 340 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red over White Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 2022 at 11:48
Originally posted by castleparknight castleparknight wrote:

Originally posted by Red over White Red over White wrote:

I suspect HMRC would give a business a Time to Pay arrangement to see them through short term difficulties. Proceedings such as winding-up would only be considered if the business failed to honour that agreement, or the chances of paying off the debt within a reasonable timescale were not there. Banks are also unlikely to loan money to pay off debts, unless there was the prospect of new money coming into the business.

Originally posted by kingsheathlad kingsheathlad wrote:

The days when HMRC allowed a time to pay agreement appear to have gone, its a case  of  approach your bank for funds. 
From what I read, Worcester had already defaulted for over a year. How much longer should they be granted? Perhaps it is time for them to fall on their sword, or fall to a level that they can sustain until such time as they are ready to climb back up the league.


As you say, how long would you be prepared to wait for a debt to be settled. One assumes that over the year the debt was coming down, so one marvels at what it might have been when the agreement was first made. Or it could be they weren't paying new liabilities as they arose, so the overall debt wasn't coming down as fast as HMRC would have expected. Who knows.

 
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castleparknight View Drop Down
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Points: 2972 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote castleparknight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 2022 at 12:09
R&O I suspect you are right - worrying times for the fans. 

Bet nothing happens before the season starts, at which point a points deduction etc etc is applied but as no relegation what will happen? I suspect we won’t see a London Welsh (although justified), could a two season penalty be applied?
Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny!
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I see that the Sports Council have a charge over the company assrts
"My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts."
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Points: 1210 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Runitback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 2022 at 16:56
Its quite amazing the Premiership allows clubs to consistently to make huge losses but then wont approve a hugely well backed club, Ealing, into its league as it does not have enough seats but has a business plan that will increase capacity as its success grows!!! Farce . . 
Run with it
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Points: 412 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Count Ford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 2022 at 15:27
Just saw an article about a proposed exemption to the salary cap to potentially allow players leaving Worcester to join other clubs. Seems very suspect legally without a new agreement and shows Worcester really are in dire straits
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Points: 516 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dropout22 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 2022 at 16:20
Originally posted by Count Ford Count Ford wrote:

Just saw an article about a proposed exemption to the salary cap to potentially allow players leaving Worcester to join other clubs. Seems very suspect legally without a new agreement and shows Worcester really are in dire straits

Makes a mess of the whole salary cap and of the league if 1 or even 2 premiership sides go bust this season....
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TRP reports on Wuss and Wasps today, nothing much new. Also mention of 'at least 2 more clubs, one at the North + another in the SW, who are being looked at very closely' [by HMRC]
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/62630861

Reading this does not look good. Looks like the directors might be asset stripping before administration by the fact their other companies are now magically buying up Worcester's money making assets like the car park.
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Points: 4146 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halliford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2022 at 10:55
Originally posted by Robb Robb wrote:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/62630861

Reading this does not look good. Looks like the directors might be asset stripping before administration by the fact their other companies are now magically buying up Worcester's money making assets like the car park.

Exactly my thoughts when I read the piece in the BBC just now. Strip the income-generating assets, increase the rent to the Rugby Club, force it into administration, pay creditors a small proportion of what they are owed and restart with no debt. Isn't that how it goes? Except that HMRC may have cottoned on and, hopefully, the RFU won't allow it. Not holding my breath over the latter .....
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https://www.rugbypass.com/news/how-worcester-might-escape-35-point-reduction/

Discussion here of the same issues and the possible RFU response.
 

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Looking at Companies House these individuals have formed a number of companies in the past that have then been subject to compulsory strike-off.  Of those that continue to trade, with a few exceptions, they have been subject to late submission of accounts and confirmation statements. Read into this what you may.........
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Points: 2972 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote castleparknight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2022 at 12:12
As someone pointed out on Twitter this clause came into effect for the 2022/23 season is it backwards compatible? And as a chunk of this debt arose pre-pandemic what is the excuse then?
Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny!
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Points: 4146 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halliford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2022 at 12:52
Originally posted by One For The Ditch One For The Ditch wrote:

Looking at Companies House these individuals have formed a number of companies in the past that have then been subject to compulsory strike-off.  Of those that continue to trade, with a few exceptions, they have been subject to late submission of accounts and confirmation statements. Read into this what you may.........

To be frank it is how a lot of entrepreneurs operate these days. Just read Private Eye's coverage of the Pandemic Profits.
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Points: 231 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote One For The Ditch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2022 at 13:57
Originally posted by Halliford Halliford wrote:

Originally posted by One For The Ditch One For The Ditch wrote:

Looking at Companies House these individuals have formed a number of companies in the past that have then been subject to compulsory strike-off.  Of those that continue to trade, with a few exceptions, they have been subject to late submission of accounts and confirmation statements. Read into this what you may.........

To be frank it is how a lot of entrepreneurs operate these days. Just read Private Eye's coverage of the Pandemic Profits.
I suggest that in this case they think that they are entrepreneurs......pair of rogues more like!
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Points: 1480 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2022 at 14:07
Originally posted by Halliford Halliford wrote:

Originally posted by Robb Robb wrote:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/62630861

Reading this does not look good. Looks like the directors might be asset stripping before administration by the fact their other companies are now magically buying up Worcester's money making assets like the car park.

Exactly my thoughts when I read the piece in the BBC just now. Strip the income-generating assets, increase the rent to the Rugby Club, force it into administration, pay creditors a small proportion of what they are owed and restart with no debt. Isn't that how it goes? Except that HMRC may have cottoned on and, hopefully, the RFU won't allow it. Not holding my breath over the latter .....

If a layman like you and me can see it, then no doubt HMRC can see it too. The problem is what can the RFU do about it? 

Worcester are an individual club who just hold membership, its not like the American franchises where the league can directly intervene if the people running it are doing something shady with the inner workings. And as for HMRc, if they flog off all the assets before going into administration, do the administrators have any jurisdiction over that which was sold ex post facto?


Edited by Robb - 22 Aug 2022 at 14:07
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Points: 312 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pistacio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2022 at 15:49
i keep getting a message saying the article has been taken down? 
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KnightsBoy View Drop Down
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/62630861

Edited by KnightsBoy - 22 Aug 2022 at 18:01
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KnightsBoy View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Pistacio Pistacio wrote:

i keep getting a message saying the article has been taken down? 

It's still available on the BBC, linking working 
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Points: 11121 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2022 at 16:46
The link has a trailing %20 - this is a space. Trim that off and it finds the correct page
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Points: 312 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pistacio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2022 at 16:46
thank you
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