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Worcester & Wasps

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Brizzer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brizzer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 2022 at 13:14
So Wasps main problem was that they moved 100 miles from London, where their main fan base is, to Coventry where it isn’t. That didn’t work.
So now they want to mover another 30 miles further from London to try and win over/steal another clubs fans…… are they barking mad or what?

Put it this way. Should Jersey and Guernsey suffer the same fate (god forbid) and Guernsey decided to relocate to Jersey. How many locals do you think would turn out to watch them?…. I would suggest single figures and that would only be because someone is bound to take a wrong turn and go to the rugby instead of the bowling alley in error!!

Crazy suggestion from a desperate Wasps contingent
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 2022 at 13:30
These are Wasps legends - they are all suffering brain damage from cncussion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote islander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2022 at 08:56
The above remark is in very poor taste; is it meant to be amusing?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote islander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2022 at 08:57
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote islander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Dec 2022 at 14:44
Never sure whether to post in Champ or Clubhouse Chat - going for former as Champ is most affected (altho' will also have knock-on impact lower down). Latest from Telegraph...

Worcester Warriors face being refused entry to next season’s Championship
Wasps set to be allowed into second tier as RFU and Warriors' prospective new owners fail to agree terms of rescue deal

By Ben Rumsby 15 December 2022 • 1:10pm

Worcester Warriors are on the brink of being refused entry to next season’s Championship, with their prospective new owners and the Rugby Football Union at loggerheads over a rescue deal for the stricken club.

Telegraph Sport can also reveal that Wasps, thrown out of the Premiership as well after being plunged into administration, are close to being allowed to re-enter the English rugby pyramid in the second tier following their own takeover.

But, unless there is a dramatic U-turn, the RFU’s board will meet on Friday to rubber-stamp a recommendation by its Club Financial Viability Group (CFVG) not to permit Worcester to join them.

That follows what it can be revealed is an on-going row between Warriors’ prospective new owners, Atlas Worcester Warriors Rugby Club Ltd, and the RFU over strict conditions the latter had been seeking to impose on their rescue deal.

Telegraph Sport has been told the CFVG was not satisfied the information provided by the buyers, in particular relating to their financial position, demonstrated their ability to continue to fund the club and to deliver on their business plan, which includes significant development at the Sixways site.

The conditions imposed on the deal included an RFU veto over the disposal of land around the stadium, swift payment of rugby creditors, commitments to a women’s team and other key governance conditions.

Atlas, fronted by former Worcester chief executive Jim O’Toole and bankrolled by money from the United States, are said to be furious at the conditions being imposed and to have threatened legal action over any refusal to allow their entry into the Championship.

They were said to be committed to proceeding with the takeover of WRFC Trading Limited regardless, which would mean they would own the club and its assets but have no league to play in.

The approval of Wasps’ takeover was said to have been more straightforward, with the club having lost its own stadium, the Coventry Building Society Arena, when they were plunged into administration.

The ground was bought by Mike Ashley’s Frasers Group and the club have been in negotiations to become a tenant there.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote islander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Dec 2022 at 15:59

Response from (Atlas) Worcester Warriors - afraid it's not that easy to read...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KnightsBoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Dec 2022 at 16:45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Dec 2022 at 21:28
Originally posted by islander islander wrote:


Response from (Atlas) Worcester Warriors - afraid it's not that easy to read...

 


Statement re Worcester Warriors Acquisition

15 12 22

Atlas Worcester Warriors RFC Limited are now actively progressing with the Administrators the acquisition of the land, stadium, and club assets of WRFC Trading in Administration. We do not see any major commercial or legal issues arising and we will now rapidly progress the transaction with the Administrators. We would like to thank Julie Palmer and her team for a positive and collaborative approach with what is an extremely complex process.

Notwithstanding the fact that we are moving forward with the transaction, it has become apparent to us that despite producing detailed financial evidence to the RFU (the RFU have not required any further financial information since last Friday 9th December) and having received clear indications that the RFU were satisfied on the financial due-diligence aspects of Atlas insofar as they proceeded to issue a draft Agreement to Atlas, the RFU are now seeking to impose onerous operational conditions, commercial restrictions and barriers that would prevent our admittance to and participation in the RFU Championship for the 2023/24 season and seeking to rely on a lack of "financial due-diligence", which in our view is patently untrue. We would invite the select committee currently investigating this process to have access to all of our correspondence with the RFU relating to

this matter and we will happily provide evidence and oral testimony for the select committee regarding the steps that the RFU have taken in this matter.

Since entering into exclusivity with the Administrators, we have sought to work collaboratively with the RFU with a view to Worcester Warriors re-entering the Championship for the 2023/24 season. Unfortunately, it has not been possible to reach a market or institutionally acceptable, commercially viable proposition with the RFU. The position being taken by the RFU gives, in our view, too much control and oversight to the RFU and such control and oversight is over and above what we consider is reasonable and appropriate in the circumstances.

Unfortunately, in our view, the RFU are currently refusing to accept our reasonable and sustainable position and the RFU are instead seeking, in our view, to apply stringent oversights and conditions on us which are disproportionate, and contain the following onerous terms:

⚫ obligations that Atlas are in Special Measures (conditions that apply to insolvent clubs under the RFU regulations). This is illogical in circumstances where we are a fully funded new unconnected entity to the previous club.

We have provided a sustainable business plan to the RFU and provided a high level of financial due diligence to evidence our ability to meet our obligations both on and off the Rugby field;

⚫ conditions that give a non-governmental sporting body approval right over our strategic business plan, material contracts and the ability to raise, secure and use funding whether this relates to our Rugby commercial

activities or otherwise; and ⚫ extensive information rights, observational rights and access rights to board meetings and information, even when such information does not relate to Rugby matters. (A point we have been willing to accept on an observation only basis).

The above headline issues are provisions that are not only operationally restrictive, but they are oppressive and raise the spectre of shadow directorship on the part of the RFU. The above obligations in particular points 1 and 2 would make simple operational tasks extremely difficult and burdensome for us to operate a Championship rugby team and a Women's Allianz Premiership team.

We appreciate that the RFU are now seeking to scrutinise the position of new owners, as is their obligation to do so. However, in our view it is unacceptable to punish those looking to satisfy creditors, community, fans and staff for the mistakes of others in circumstances where we have evidenced to the RFU a strong management team, a detailed business plan and evidence of funding and sustainability.

Unfortunately, for Rugby to be viable at Worcester, we cannot accept terms that are excessive, unreasonable, and unworkable and which would hinder any commercial business that is needed to support elite Men's and

Women's rugby.

As a result, should the RFU not find the flexibility to remove the over-onerous terms they are seeking to impose on Atlas, we will have no alternative but to conclude the deal with Begbies without the approval of the RFU and without returning elite-level Rugby to Worcester.

To Worcester fans and commercial partners, we repeat our commitment to returning elite Men's and Women's rugby to Worcester and having this at the forefront of our business. We hope that the RFU take a commercial and less onerous approach going forward and will work with us to seek a pragmatic, commercial and sensible solution that works for all parties.

Atlas Worcester Warriors RFC Consortium
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Dec 2022 at 21:34
For me the key comment is
Quote  

 This is illogical in circumstances where we are a fully funded new unconnected entity to the previous club.

So an admittance they are a new club who should start from the bottom unless they are willing and able to pay the Rugby debts as a phoenix entity, and no one seems to have seen evidence they can fulfil this duty.

Some will moan the RFU are putting up obstacles but are they the same people who complained the RFU didn't do due diligence on the previous owners who got them into this mess in the first place. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WEvans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2022 at 12:11
Originally posted by Richard Lowther Richard Lowther wrote:

For me the key comment is
Quote  

 This is illogical in circumstances where we are a fully funded new unconnected entity to the previous club.

So an admittance they are a new club who should start from the bottom unless they are willing and able to pay the Rugby debts as a phoenix entity, and no one seems to have seen evidence they can fulfil this duty.

Some will moan the RFU are putting up obstacles but are they the same people who complained the RFU didn't do due diligence on the previous owners who got them into this mess in the first place. 

Willing and able to pay ALL debts please Richard.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote islander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2022 at 13:41
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OldNick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2022 at 13:55
Originally posted by islander islander wrote:

RFU update - Wasps = yes/ Worcs = no


Interesting that the Wasps acceptance ticks the financial boxes, but does not include agreement on a venue - maybe this is the next stage.

It now explains the tantrum posting from Atlas, with regard to Worcester.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ParkBench Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2022 at 14:14
The Atlas statement on Thursday that if the RFU did not change its stance, they would look to conclude a deal "without the approval of the RFU and without returning elite level rugby to Worcester" was clearly a shot across the RFU's bows but they haven't budged.

Presumably the administrators overriding purpose is to obtain the best return for the creditors, not whether or not the company (the rugby club) can be restored to operation at the highest level on offer by the governing body.

Diamond seems to have already responded that he's still in the hunt. It remains to be seen if the Atlas statement was a final bluff or if they are committed to a business opportunity in Worcester.

For once I can see the RFU's side in that if it all went t*** up a while down the road they would be in an indefensible position in front of the DCMS. That said they've let Wasps put in a men's team only option apparently without comment or opposition. I know the women's team are operating out of the amateur club's Acton site but it does shout out the wrong message from the governing body.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brizzer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2022 at 14:16
Interesting that the RFU have issues with Sixways potentially being developed, thus Wuss may not have a permanent home (which I totally get), but are happy with Wasps who are a nomad club and do not have a home…. Strange don’t you think?
Tackle Low!!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2022 at 14:20
Originally posted by WEvans WEvans wrote:

Originally posted by Richard Lowther Richard Lowther wrote:

For me the key comment is
Quote  

 This is illogical in circumstances where we are a fully funded new unconnected entity to the previous club.

So an admittance they are a new club who should start from the bottom unless they are willing and able to pay the Rugby debts as a phoenix entity, and no one seems to have seen evidence they can fulfil this duty.

Some will moan the RFU are putting up obstacles but are they the same people who complained the RFU didn't do due diligence on the previous owners who got them into this mess in the first place. 

Willing and able to pay ALL debts please Richard.

Yes I accept your point but that is different to the RFU's considerations. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2022 at 14:24
Originally posted by Brizzer Brizzer wrote:

Interesting that the RFU have issues with Sixways potentially being developed, thus Wuss may not have a permanent home (which I totally get), but are happy with Wasps who are a nomad club and do not have a home…. Strange don’t you think?

Totally. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2022 at 14:27
Originally posted by islander islander wrote:

RFU update - Wasps = yes/ Worcs = no


The RFU statement regarding Worcester's preferred bidders finances is quite cutting.  There has been lots of speculation around the finances of the consortium and it would appear that the consortium has done nothing to dispell this and can only blame themselves for the RFU's decision. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ParkBench Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2022 at 15:11
Wasps have announced that they will be remaining at a Midlands venue but won’t confirm which one yet.


Good news for Wasps fans. I still don’t get the starting in 2nd tier that the RFU offered them and not previous clubs but that’s for the RFU to explain.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W-J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2022 at 15:29
Telegraph reporting that it's Damson Park, Solihull.  I thought a criteria of the phoenix entity being allowed to play in the Championship was that they remain at the same home ground?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thatbloke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2022 at 15:51
Absolutely correct but conveniently ignored because it suits! 
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