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'Premiership' Cup confirmed.... |
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Mark W-J 
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Joined: 22 May 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Online Points: 3647 |
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 Posted: 25 Apr 2023 at 07:45 |
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A seeded draw generally means six pots of four clubs, so you'd typically get a top, middle, and bottom third team from each of the two leagues in each pool. Although, as most people have already commented, some regional bias would also help build interest and crowds.
Edited by Mark W-J - 25 Apr 2023 at 07:46 |
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Brizzer
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Posted: 25 Apr 2023 at 08:11 |
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Normally yes, but this is 4 pots of 6 clubs with the winners of each pot competing in the semifinals |
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Tackle Low!!!!!
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Trailfinder
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Joined: 05 Feb 2017 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 401 |
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Posted: 25 Apr 2023 at 08:50 |
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Ok hopefully I have got the wrong end of the stick on this one. I feared the worst and past experience suggests that to be true but let’s see!
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Mark W-J
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Joined: 22 May 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Online Points: 3647 |
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Posted: 25 Apr 2023 at 08:57 |
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Are you confusing pots and pools...?
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gerg_861
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Posted: 25 Apr 2023 at 10:06 |
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Here's a question - is there any kind of prize pool for this cup? Or any sponsor? This seems like the kind of proposition that might attract some kind of sponsor (who wants to be involved in rugby, but can't afford the world cup).
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Brizzer
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Posted: 25 Apr 2023 at 10:45 |
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Lobster pots obviously 
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Halliford
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Posted: 25 Apr 2023 at 11:01 |
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This could be a (lobster) trap!!
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workerbee
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Posted: 25 Apr 2023 at 11:08 |
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Presumably this Cup is for one year only to be replaced by a cup competition for the 2 Premiership leagues of 10 for 24/25 .
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Camquin
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Posted: 25 Apr 2023 at 12:48 |
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They could relegate five sides from the Championship and call it Premiership 2. But then the sides would have seven fewer matches. And you would hope matches are what generates income. Unless there is some way to fit 20 English sides in European competitions and get them all on television, currently the Challenge Cup games are not being covered - though that has a lot to do with having to play all the matches at the weekend. |
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Sweeney Delenda Est
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Mark Smith
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aka 'Ramshackle Smith' Joined: 17 Jul 2012 Location: Newcastle Upon Status: Offline Points: 2364 |
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Posted: 25 Apr 2023 at 14:18 |
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Challenge Cup pool games are shown on Viaplay (formerly Premier Sports), and the knockout games are on BT Sport.
Games which aren't live on TV are generally available to stream via the EPCR website for 5 Euros a pop.
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Elijah Cadman
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Posted: 25 Apr 2023 at 18:04 |
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Thought there were 6 leagues of four proposed?
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Brizzer
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Posted: 25 Apr 2023 at 18:57 |
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/65375927 |
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Tackle Low!!!!!
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islander
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Posted: 26 Apr 2023 at 07:27 |
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From Telegraph earlier this week. Mentions local rivalries, but haven't seen anything official about the draw being arranged with that in mind - league positions referenced in official comms, but no detail. Not that local rivalries are a big deal down here... unless Guernsey are being lined up as the 24th club
Premiership clubs to face Championship sides in new cup format – but is this a cynical sweetener? New 24-club format is designed to revive local rivalries as long as it is not a sop to the Championship to ringfence their top-flight status By Charlie Morgan, SENIOR RUGBY WRITER Championship clubs will be included in the Premiership Rugby Cup next season with the tournament incorporating the top two tiers of English rugby union. Premiership Rugby confirmed on Monday that they intended for 24 teams, including Wasps, to be split into four pools of six based on league positions this season. The pool fixtures will be played over five consecutive weekends from Sept 8 to Oct 8, during the World Cup, with the semi-finals and final set for February and March. “It is many years since the Premiership and Championship clubs clashed in a cup competition,” Phil Winstanley, the rugby director of Premiership Rugby, said. “The Championship performs a crucial role within the English game and we’re looking forward to renewing some rivalries of old. “With the Rugby World Cup taking place in France, this competition will no doubt provide the best, young English talent with an opportunity to stake a claim in squads before the start of the Gallagher Premiership campaign.” Conor O’Shea, the performance director of the Rugby Football Union, heralded a move that could be “part of the longer-term solution for the game”, with Steve Lloyd, chairman of the Championship clubs committee, saluting a sense of co-operation. “The new cup format is the result of great collaboration between the Championship, RFU and Premiership Rugby,” Lloyd said. “The clubs are delighted with the opportunity a different format brings as well as the experience of playing Premiership sides and the opportunity to welcome new fans into our clubs and grow our audiences.” What timing. The announcement of a new hybrid cup competition comes less than 24 hours after it was confirmed that the last weekend of the regular Premiership season will have very little riding on it. Saracens’ win over London Irish, which was ultimately comfortable despite a shocking start from Mark McCall’s side, means the top four is settled. Barring a miracle result between Harlequins and Leicester at Welford Road – Tigers could theoretically sink to fourth if they are thrashed – the semi-finals are sorted. There is no relegation, of course, meaning that the only meaningful jeopardy comes over a scramble for the eighth and final Champions Cup place. Good luck sexing that up. In an interview with Telegraph Sport in December, Premiership Rugby chief executive Simon Massie-Taylor vowed that the process of redrawing league structures for the 2024-25 campaign, when the top league is expected to shrink to 10 teams, would place an onus on strengthening the second tier. At the moment, it seems as though the season after next will bring a relegation play-off between the bottom-placed Premiership team and the Championship winners. Either way, this new cup competition can be a big help. In truth, its introduction is a no-brainer. First off, the Premiership and Championship clubs playing amongst themselves in cup competitions had grown decidedly dull. Merging 24 clubs across the two tiers adds variety. There is scope for local rivalries to be renewed. Leicester Tigers or Northampton Saints facing Nottingham or Coventry would be a lot of fun. Cornish Pirates taking on Exeter Chiefs or Gloucester is another intriguing match-up; likewise Caldy against Sale Sharks. Championship clubs should be able to attract more supporters to big-ticket occasions. There will be intrigue and fresh storylines for a television audience. Coaches, as well as medical and analysis departments, should be able to share knowledge. Premiership sides will almost certainly get a look at motivated late developers eager to prove a point, which may cause them to rethink their recruitment. With the A League confined to the abyss, the Premiership Cup will remain a crucial grounding for recent academy graduates. Those youngsters need game-time. All the better for that to come in a meaningful environment. Hopefully there is a bit of needle. In short, this tournament should bring together more of the professional players in the country and there is scope for it to become a significant feature of the English calendar. Hopefully, it helps to bridge the gap between the top two divisions, though that will be impossible without proper funding for the Championship as well. Having beaten Ealing Trailfinders this weekend to put themselves on course to win the Championship, Jersey are certain to be fired-up for a crack at top-tier opponents. Ealing themselves can point at recent victories over Saracens, Newcastle and Gloucester. Although they remain eager to escape the Championship, this is better than nothing. Success is predicated on Premiership clubs taking the competition seriously. Then again, they should do. Besides the importance of local bragging rights – Gloucester would feel seriously stung to be turned over by Hartpury, for example – the tournament will form a significant chunk of their pre-season schedules. As Winstanley has pointed out, internationals will be away at the World Cup and there will be opportunities to stake a claim for selection. Eligibility and registration will need to be monitored carefully for the integrity of the tournament, especially where Premiership clubs contribute a large number of players to Championship rosters. The relationship between Harlequins and London Scottish springs to mind. There is little point in individuals being able to represent two clubs in the same tournament. An injury crisis could bring about special dispensation. On the surface, unless it turns out to be a cynical sweetener that maintains ringfencing, the revamped Premiership Cup smacks of sense and collaboration. We do not often get to say that about rugby union administration. |
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Scrumtime
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Posted: 26 Apr 2023 at 07:48 |
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Question: I take it once you have played for one side you will be cup tied, so cannot play for another.
I also take it the Prem clubs will field players not in their league sides, to give the main guns a rest, which is totally understandable. So my questions are So what happens to Scottish if they stay in the Champ ? Have Quins got a big enough squad to field in effect 3 xv's, the Prem side, Cup side and loans to Scottish, because I take it these games will be played on "league" Saturdays for other clubs, so the chances of Scottish taking any on loan are very small. and what happens to the 40/50 loan players that are with Nat 1 and 2 clubs during the season, they are not going to be available those weekends meaning Nat 1 is the luck of the draw, you can walk into a side one week stacked with DR, Academy and loan players as some clubs do, only to play them next week with a lot of gaps left in the side which could make them much weaker ! |
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*Stalwart
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Posted: 26 Apr 2023 at 09:16 |
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Scrumtime says: "and what happens to the 40/50 loan players that are with Nat 1 and 2 clubs during the season, they are not going to be available those weekends meaning Nat 1 is the luck of the draw, you can walk into a side one week stacked with DR, Academy and loan players as some clubs do, only to play them next week with a lot of gaps left in the side which could make them much weaker !"
Thing is, that happens in the Championship already. If you play a club who usually field several dual reg/loanees, when these guys are away to play for for their Prem clubs in the Prem Cup you obviously have a better chance than when they are all available for their Championship clubs. 'Tis a bit of a lottery! |
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*Stalwart
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MikeGC
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Posted: 26 Apr 2023 at 09:25 |
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Scrumtime
As I read this the competition is a "sweetener" to the Championship clubs (hopefully it’ll give them a few good days to earn money at the gate or over the bar) and an extended pre-season for the premiership clubs. It doesn’t run in parallel with the premiership season, so a premiership club can play any player registered to them who isn’t injured or playing at the World Cup. As this is the only competitive rugby for the premiership sides they won’t need three match day squads, they’ll only need one (maybe one and a half) My suspicion is that they will have a young starting XV and strong benches when playing against a championship side and their strongest side available when playing against a premiership side. Loan players are probably not seen as vital to premiership DORs, if they were vital they wouldn’t be on loan. edit for spelling Edited by MikeGC - 26 Apr 2023 at 09:26 |
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workerbee
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Posted: 26 Apr 2023 at 09:48 |
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As the format is 4 pools of 6 then there will be 3 Premier clubs and 3 Championship clubs in three pools and 1 pool of 2 Premier clubs and 4 Championship clubs. As the clubs only play each other once then there is a chance of the championship clubs only getting one home game against a Premier club which is one of the big draws for Championship clubs and certainly in the pool that only has 2 premier clubs than they could not get any.
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billesleyexile
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Posted: 26 Apr 2023 at 10:27 |
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So, inflicting the same lottery on National 1 is absolutely fine then? Oh I forgot, it's fine because Championship clubs are going to make some money out of it, so adding to the chaos down the pyramid is just regrettably one of those things that no one could have foreseen when they supported/endorsed it.... |
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keep the faith
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Camquin
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Posted: 26 Apr 2023 at 10:28 |
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In the 3+3 pools, I think you are guaranteed one home game against a premiership side, and if the Premiership sides wanted to play nice, they could arrange the draw so the Championship sides get 3 home matches, two of which are against Premiership opposition. Of course, the premiership owners do not play nice, but the accountants may decide that it is not worth the candle of opening up a big stadium for what is effectively a pre-season game. In which case, they might decide to look magnanimous and offer the Championship sides the extra home games. Even in the 4+2 pool, I think it can be arranged that all four Championship clubs get a home game against a Premiership side.
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Sweeney Delenda Est
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billesleyexile
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Posted: 26 Apr 2023 at 10:32 |
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When do National 1 clubs get their sweetener? Seriously, totally inadequate funding gets handed out centrally to Level 2 for no reason other than a basically dead aspiration to help them be more like level 1. In the meantime all it actually does is start to build an *artificial* separation between level 2 and level 3. Time, as I've said before, for a one game solution to all that - and if that means 10 pro clubs and the Championship as the pinnacle of the 'community' game then so be it. Sick of the double standards from the RFU (level 2 is 'pro' when it suits them and 'not' when it isn't), and of some Championship clubs who cling to their level 2 status like grim death because they know what's left of the central funding is all that separates them from the clubs operating at level 3 without it. A free £160k per year would go a long way in level 3, and even further as you go down the leagues. I appreciate it's not the £500k of former years (think IIRC it might have actually touched £750k at one point) but every little helps to them that are given... Edited by billesleyexile - 26 Apr 2023 at 10:37 |
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keep the faith
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Trailfinder wrote: