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Golden Jackal View Drop Down
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Points: 153 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Golden Jackal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2023 at 15:12
Sorry Tiger but the leagues were weaker for it....Lions clearly had a fantastic season, but as you say yourself  you dont see many games as your based in Scotland.., but certainly in the newly formed East League there was a distinct gap between the top clubs and bottom clubs...  The 5 teamss from N2South that went West finished........1, 2,3,5 and 7th - Redruth being the surprise underperformers.
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Points: 4151 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halliford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2023 at 15:13
Originally posted by Thunderbird Thunderbird wrote:


    If you go over the salary cap you lose all funding, well we get FA anyway , so that does not work. 


The funding you could lose includes anything you might get from your CB, not just the RFU. That includes hosting matches, mini and junior tournaments, sevens, etc. I know that doesn't affect everyone but to some it's a key income.
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Originally posted by Golden Jackal Golden Jackal wrote:

Sorry Tiger but the leagues were weaker for it....Lions clearly had a fantastic season, but as you say yourself  you dont see many games as your based in Scotland.., but certainly in the newly formed East League there was a distinct gap between the top clubs and bottom clubs...  The 5 teamss from N2South that went West finished........1, 2,3,5 and 7th - Redruth being the surprise underperformers.
I did watch the Lions on youtube after the games, so aware of the standards and could directly compare with leagues 2 and 3 in NE Scotland. Some clubs were struggling with the step up, nothing new there it takes time, sure the Lions will see a huge difference in Nat1. But clubs were able to turn over those old Nat 2 South side, Luctonians in particular had a pretty good season and didn't show any lack of talent or ambition and those sides who escaped the drop will I'm sure be all the better for their experiences next season. It's a bit like Jersey, if you don't let these sides step up and have a go, we never will improve the standards.
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Originally posted by tigerburnie tigerburnie wrote:

What are you proposing, ring fencing the lower leagues and stopping them from having a go at the next level? Sounds as bad as what the PRL are doing.


I suggest going back to the old system of 16 clubs at N1 level and 2 divisions of 16 clubs at N2 level
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Points: 2450 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheshire exile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2023 at 21:54
Originally posted by tigerburnie tigerburnie wrote:

Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

Originally posted by tigerburnie tigerburnie wrote:

Originally posted by Remember Izal Remember Izal wrote:

Would it not make more sense for Nat 2 to be increased from 3 to 4 leagues?

That is being discussed seemingly.


Absolutely not.

Changing to 3 level 4 divisions has diluted the playing levels of each of those - making it 4 would worsen the situation even more.

To watch one's team win by 50 points occasionally is fine - if this happens in half the season's games it will become tedious and Gates will fall even further.
This just did not happen in Nat2 West this past season, maybe all the best clubs were in that league and the other two were not so good....................................................................Wink

Reds 92 Newport 7 wasn’t too close.
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Just noticed a post on league structure for next season for 2 North with Bishop's Stortford in it. Relegation? Long way to drive! Ah! It's football g not just ridiculous distances in Rugby. 😎
"My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts."
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Soccer, often seen as a Northern game, has an even larger Southern bias than Rugby.

And that is after almost all the Yorkshire and Lancashire clubs, and some of the Northern ones, went to Rugby League - they were replaced by the new clubs founded mainly by soldiers returning after World War 1.

Bradford, the winners in 1884 of the Yorkshire Cup, who along with Manningham, defected not just to the Northern Union but thence to Soccer, but have just been relegated from National 2 North.
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Points: 3644 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tigerburnie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2023 at 10:42
Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

Originally posted by tigerburnie tigerburnie wrote:

What are you proposing, ring fencing the lower leagues and stopping them from having a go at the next level? Sounds as bad as what the PRL are doing.


I suggest going back to the old system of 16 clubs at N1 level and 2 divisions of 16 clubs at N2 level
With no RFU funding the travel costs were too great for Nat 2 though, with money in short supply clubs will struggle, we have already had a conversation re Lymm being put in the same league as the sides from Devon and Cornwall.
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Points: 3255 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kingsheathlad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2023 at 11:00
Originally posted by FHLH FHLH wrote:

Just noticed a post on league structure for next season for 2 North with Bishop's Stortford in it. Relegation? Long way to drive! Ah! It's football g not just ridiculous distances in Rugby. 😎
I believe there closest away fixtures will be in Lincolnshire. 


Edited by kingsheathlad - 18 May 2023 at 13:11
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I agree the old system was better, in terms of product anyway. 16 clubs is to many, 30 league games outs a lot onto the players and coaches. I think 14 is a good number, 26 games.

Ultimately it is a national league, semi professional competition and clubs should expect travel and associated costs to get the level of competition the standard should provide, it’s all part of the kudos of playing at that level. Some support should come from the RFU but I don’t agree with how they’ve diluted the standard at L4 to reduce the travel burden, it’s a worse product that before
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Originally posted by PM009 PM009 wrote:

I agree the old system was better, in terms of product anyway. 16 clubs is to many, 30 league games outs a lot onto the players and coaches. I think 14 is a good number, 26 games.

Ultimately it is a national league, semi professional competition and clubs should expect travel and associated costs to get the level of competition the standard should provide, it’s all part of the kudos of playing at that level. Some support should come from the RFU but I don’t agree with how they’ve diluted the standard at L4 to reduce the travel burden, it’s a worse product that before


But if you look at the results and the table they do not bear out what you think, the two sides relegated were not new sides, they were in Nat 2 South and the promoted sides had some good results too, just as in the West league. Those clubs who came up and survived will be more ready for the standard that is needed and will no doubt be better prepared, which is what it's all about, giving teams and their players a chance it it not?
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Points: 1721 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thatbloke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2023 at 12:42
Surely League Tables don't lie!? 10 Level 5 clubs came up at the end of last season - only 1 went straight back down and that club was carrying a points deduction from the previous season - early indication that times might be difficult?) Plus I'm sure you can trawl through any league and find one or more big winning margins and howl "mismatch" Truth is everyone has good days and bad days  - days when they're at full strength and days when the squad is seriously depleted 

Edited by Thatbloke - 19 May 2023 at 11:54
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Originally posted by tigerburnie tigerburnie wrote:

Originally posted by PM009 PM009 wrote:

I agree the old system was better, in terms of product anyway. 16 clubs is to many, 30 league games outs a lot onto the players and coaches. I think 14 is a good number, 26 games.

Ultimately it is a national league, semi professional competition and clubs should expect travel and associated costs to get the level of competition the standard should provide, it’s all part of the kudos of playing at that level. Some support should come from the RFU but I don’t agree with how they’ve diluted the standard at L4 to reduce the travel burden, it’s a worse product that before


But if you look at the results and the table they do not bear out what you think, the two sides relegated were not new sides, they were in Nat 2 South and the promoted sides had some good results too, just as in the West league. Those clubs who came up and survived will be more ready for the standard that is needed and will no doubt be better prepared, which is what it's all about, giving teams and their players a chance it it not?

Had Rochford & Westcliff not been saved from relegation in 2021-22 by the reorganisation, the two bottom clubs would have been N Walsham & Sevenoaks, both promoted sides. Barnstaple would also have been relegated and in N2W their absence would have seen another promoted side, Hornets drawn into relegation.
If only Webb-Ellis hadn't given them the ball back!
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spot on Tyke....
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Points: 153 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Golden Jackal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2023 at 13:30
For the record, I am not meaning we ring fence or deny clubs promotion...

If you win your league you should be promoted, but if we create now 4 leagues at N2, then that could mean clubs coming 3rd, possibly 4th going up a level....  
This is supposed to be a National League, you accept the costs and the travel surely....what we seem to be moving towards is a Divisional League at Level 4, meanng the step up to Level 3 could become even harder to make.
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Teams seem quite happy to pay their players to get to level 4 then 3 and probably accept that they have to pay more to them when they win their division so after achieving that goal why are now moaning that as they step up which was their initial goal it’s going to cost more to travel and take a bit (lot longer in some cases).
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Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

Soccer, often seen as a Northern game, has an even larger Southern bias than Rugby.

And that is after almost all the Yorkshire and Lancashire clubs, and some of the Northern ones, went to Rugby League - they were replaced by the new clubs founded mainly by soldiers returning after World War 1.

Bradford, the winners in 1884 of the Yorkshire Cup, who along with Manningham, defected not just to the Northern Union but thence to Soccer, but have just been relegated from National 2 North.

indeed - bizarrely Gloucester are in National League North.
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Points: 5263 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FHLH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2023 at 15:06
Originally posted by Golden Jackal Golden Jackal wrote:

For the record, I am not meaning we ring fence or deny clubs promotion...


It's about time we had some ring fencing further down the pyramid, not just The Premiership. Wink
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Points: 3644 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tigerburnie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2023 at 15:16
Originally posted by FHLH FHLH wrote:

Originally posted by Golden Jackal Golden Jackal wrote:

For the record, I am not meaning we ring fence or deny clubs promotion...


It's about time we had some ring fencing further down the pyramid, not just The Premiership. Wink
Are you volunteering Cambridge for staying in Nat 1 for next season Fog Horn?.....................Wink
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Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

Soccer, often seen as a Northern game, has an even larger Southern bias than Rugby.

And that is after almost all the Yorkshire and Lancashire clubs, and some of the Northern ones, went to Rugby League - they were replaced by the new clubs founded mainly by soldiers returning after World War 1.

Bradford, the winners in 1884 of the Yorkshire Cup, who along with Manningham, defected not just to the Northern Union but thence to Soccer, but have just been relegated from National 2 North.

indeed - bizarrely Gloucester are in National League North.

A few years ago in football Gloucester City were in National League North and Worcester were in National League South!

(I believe the FA seconded someone from the RFU to handle the allocations that year. Either that or whoever did it was pi$$ed at the time).


Edited by WEvans - 18 May 2023 at 18:26
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