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Raider999
World Cup Winner Joined: 18 Jan 2013 Location: Crawley Status: Offline Points: 4430 |
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Is that before or after the consultation of all interested parties? |
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RAID ON
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kempstonblue
World Cup Winner Joined: 20 Jun 2020 Location: Kempston Status: Offline Points: 504 |
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Foresight Decision Please do not use words like that at HQ. Thanks.
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Looking forward to new beginnings.
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workerbee
World Cup Winner Joined: 20 May 2009 Location: Wirral Status: Offline Points: 883 |
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A 14 team championship = 26 games plus 5 cup games = 31 games before semi and final , if any of the aspirational Championship get into the semi final . So possible 33 games for the season. Brings into consideration player welfare at Championship level.
I would suggest that the Aspirational Championship clubs , Ealing , Jersey, Doncaster, Coventry, Bedford will want a Prem 2 with 10 teams and ground criteria to equip them for Prem 1 (Possibly 5000) to switch to a 14 team league and add a ground criteria will probably exclude many of the current lower sides and prevent a number of the aspirational Nat 1 sides getting promotion. This would effectively lock the top 20 sides into a closed shop leaving level 3 and below as the community clubs, I would also suggest that firm Salary caps could be introduced at level 3 and below with firm penalties, points deductions not simply taking away International tickets and Loan or grants, if a club has enough money to ignore the salary cap then the current penalties are meaningless. There are many clubs at level 5 and below who pay their players to get up the ladder even though the RFU say they cannot. Any club that gets promotion should be subject to an audit.
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Camquin
World Cup Winner Joined: 01 Jun 2007 Location: Cambridge Status: Offline Points: 11123 |
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I also think a 10 + 10 solution with a 6 game cup plus an 18 game league is too short. Which suggests we will need two sides to fill out the cup, not just this season, but going forward.
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Sweeney Delenda Est
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Richard Lowther
Coaching staff Moderator Joined: 19 May 2007 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 6528 |
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If the changes go ahead at the top of the pyramid to two leagues of 10, then National 1 will disappear and replaced with a regionalised structure - however that may be geographical split.
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tigerburnie
World Cup Winner Joined: 10 Jun 2012 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 3633 |
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Nat 1 North and South and 4 Nat 2's N,S,E and W was the gossip I heard, but that was a long time ago and before the word "franchise" had been mentioned, how much has changed to placate Wasps, possibly Worcester and maybe London Irish, who knows, but I read some where and for the life of me I cannot remember where, but the announcement was due to be made at the end of 2023, but could be before the next season kicks off, again brought forwards to placate Wasps , Wuss and LI.
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Sid James
World Cup Winner Joined: 28 Jun 2013 Location: East Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 1643 |
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Very true. We were told this would happen for season 2024/25. However, it was confirmed at the recent NLR AGM that this is now not so definite and, is only one of the options on the table.
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All Knwoing All Seeing
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Scrumtime
World Cup Winner Joined: 26 Aug 2020 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 835 |
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Sorry but what a total load of b0ll75ks
National 1 is and has been the jewel in the crown of semi pro clubs, up and down the land for many years To dilute it into two leagues is, in my books a total joke. It will weaken the comp Every club aims to get to this level, some are good enough and do it some are not, but its the aim. The travel to grounds you would never normally go to is all part of it. From DMP to Plymouth, no matter what club you are at you enjoy these trips as a player, supporter or blazer. Im sorry but somebody has got this very very wrong. Just like Nat 2 into 3 divisions.. that is also not correct. Why mess about with something thats not broken, because you have to be seen to be doing something. Nat 1 and 2 leagues at Nat 2 with a play off. Im sure if they took time out to ask the clubs, instead of trying too act in the best interest of the game, they would be the answer. This game is being run by people who do not have a clue, thats from the top down. If you look at the top 5 positions at the RFU, they are held by people who have never been in the game at club level. A blind man can see that! Leave Nat 1 alone and revert back to two leagues at Nat 2.. |
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Raider999
World Cup Winner Joined: 18 Jan 2013 Location: Crawley Status: Offline Points: 4430 |
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As I understand it they did consult N1 and N2 clubs with various options - however no change from N1, N2S and N2N with 16 team leagues was not an option. |
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RAID ON
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Scrumtime
World Cup Winner Joined: 26 Aug 2020 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 835 |
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Then make it 3 leagues of 14 teams....
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tigerburnie
World Cup Winner Joined: 10 Jun 2012 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 3633 |
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I have seen the phrase mentioned about the old amateur days when "closed fixture lists" existed and clubs could not better themselves because of it.
I am now looking at some comments where people want to do this again by " ring fencing" the status quo of leagues as they were two season ago, this is not helping the club game grow, it is another form of protectionism, the very reason the game is in trouble. Trouble is, to make the game grow it needs to include folk, not exclude them, talk of clubs facilities not being good enough, yet the same people criticising the Premiership from doing exactly the same thing. The whole game seems to be populated with snobbish behaviour where clubs are terrified if their cushy number is upset. Nat 2 West is often raised as an example of "watering down" or "weakening the standard", yet it gave clubs a great opportunity to see where they were, a chance to visit grounds that they had not visited before.
Edited by tigerburnie - 04 Jun 2023 at 12:49 |
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Scrumtime
World Cup Winner Joined: 26 Aug 2020 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 835 |
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You miss my point.. My point being National 1 is and has always been top of the tree for Semi Pro rugby in England.Why split that into 2 divisions ? and have 28 clubs playing instead of 14. There is no point.
Just like there was no point in doing what they did to National 2.. The removal of the play off is a shame.. |
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Richard Lowther
Coaching staff Moderator Joined: 19 May 2007 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 6528 |
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I think the point is that the RFU don't want payments to be made to players outside of the top two leagues. |
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tigerburnie
World Cup Winner Joined: 10 Jun 2012 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 3633 |
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Yes it is my understanding that well known map the RFU uses to determine levelling up in Nat2 is the prime driver, cut down travel time/costs is/was one of the main comments from the clubs apparently and the RFU is not going to fund them, as Richard has pointed out.
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FHLH
World Cup Winner Cambridge Joined: 19 Apr 2009 Location: Cambridge Status: Offline Points: 5240 |
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Surely that's impossible to enforce with players down to Level 5 relying on occasional income. As to Level 3, no chance.
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"My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts."
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Robb
World Cup Winner Joined: 24 Jan 2017 Location: South East Status: Offline Points: 1481 |
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Quite easy for them to slap a restriction on payment on in the regs. But it won't work because then we'll be back to boot money and likely some clubs would sue over it too
Edited by Robb - 04 Jun 2023 at 18:17 |
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Richard Lowther
Coaching staff Moderator Joined: 19 May 2007 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 6528 |
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Monthly audited accounts for a start. The RFU attitude is if you can afford to pay players, then you don't require RFU money for Travel expenses or ground redevelopment etc. It depends on whether the RFU will allow a budget per level or just decide that level is zero at all levels below the top tiers. |
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Scrumtime
World Cup Winner Joined: 26 Aug 2020 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 835 |
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The funding at level 3 and 4 is next to none anyway
So they cannot use that as a stick to beat clubs with A few seasons ago it was £70/£100k at national 1 It’s now penny’s They will not be able to stop payments Below level 5 you are allowed to pay player coaches Well guess what will happen … Edited by Scrumtime - 04 Jun 2023 at 20:44 |
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tigerburnie
World Cup Winner Joined: 10 Jun 2012 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 3633 |
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Not too sure where this payment thing has sprung from, what I have heard is the RFU will only be funding Prem1 and 2, Nat 1 and 2 will get no funding hence the additional leagues to negate any travelling expenses. My understanding is the whole idea is a cost saving exercise, the first instalment was Nat 2 West, when all travel payments ceased due to less travel.........well at least the RFU seemed to think there was less travel.
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Scrumtime
World Cup Winner Joined: 26 Aug 2020 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 835 |
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Sorry but its done nothing for travel and its diluted the leagues and the standard. You have sides in National 2 now that are just not good enough The one thing that was not broken was the ladder from Nat 1 downwards. But they had to mess about with it. Adding 3 leagues at level 4 and adding 2nd xv's lower. So so wrong |
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