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So, 2023/24 fixtures?
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greenpower View Drop Down
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Points: 3289 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote greenpower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2023 at 18:57
yes one that dosnt use loan players to get out of the sh/tWinkWink
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Originally posted by greenpower greenpower wrote:

yes one that dosnt use loan players to get out of the sh/tWinkWink

Yes or run one or more teams below the main team or juniors or minis - clearly one which uses loan players cannot be a proper club unlike the other teams in the Championship which are kept afloat solely by wealthy businessmen who fund their club to keep them afloat. 

No wonder league rugby in England is in such a state. 
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Points: 5239 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FHLH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2023 at 19:22
Originally posted by Jester10 Jester10 wrote:

Shouldn't Rams go up and Richmond go down? Smile

Makes sense except for National 1 finances 
"My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts."
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Points: 4146 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halliford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2023 at 20:49
Excellent sources tell me no change to National 1. Championship will run as last season swapping Cambridge for Richmond. Only issue will be the Cup - 23 or 22 teams! Perhaps they will pull in two University teams to make up the numbers.
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Robb View Drop Down
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Points: 1480 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2023 at 20:50
Originally posted by Jester10 Jester10 wrote:

Shouldn't Rams go up and Richmond go down? Smile

If you follow Premiership precedent, they usually give the team that would have been relegated a reprieve. 
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Jester10 View Drop Down
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Points: 1734 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jester10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2023 at 10:24
BTW - My comment about Rams should be promoted was sponsored by half a bottle of rather decent Malbec Tongue
Enjoying life!
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Originally posted by Exiled_Scots Exiled_Scots wrote:

Originally posted by greenpower greenpower wrote:

yes one that dosnt use loan players to get out of the sh/tWinkWink

Yes or run one or more teams below the main team or juniors or minis - clearly one which uses loan players cannot be a proper club unlike the other teams in the Championship which are kept afloat solely by wealthy businessmen who fund their club to keep them afloat. 

No wonder league rugby in England is in such a state. 

So you are saying every other Championship club is kept afloat solely by wealthy businessmen are you?
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My understanding is that Richmond go down regardless because promotion/relegation at Tier 2/3 was never dependent on the ultimate fate of Wasps, Worcester or anyone else.

But on the point about who "should" or should not be in the Championship, it does seem to me as a biased observer that it says a lot about the state of the game that the club being relegated is the one 

* with its own ground
* with 4 Men's XVs (+Vets), 2 Women's TVs, Colts, Students, Juniors and Minis (approx 550)
* financially self-sustaining after the horror of the Premiership
* that has never used more than 3 and normally no more than 2 Loanees/DRs in a 23
* that has a substantial cash balance in the bank
* which has no wealthy owners (unless you count the entire membership/ownership corpus as being collectively wealthy, which I am sure it is)
* that does not pay unsustainable salaries to players but helps them have careers as well as playing at the highest possible level
* that competes with fully professional teams (most of the time, if not quite well enough) on two training sessions a week
* that sustains the spirit of rugby in its playing ethos
* that has cheap beer
* that tries to put up with the conduct of other clubs that behave, shall we say, not always in the most gentlemanly of ways, without too much moaning.

I am not saying nobody else has any of those factors, but nobody else has all of them. So all the other things people moan about (loans, sugar daddies, teams v clubs) do not apply to Richmond, but we are the ones who are dropping out.

Like I say, to me, that says a lot about the way rugby is heading. 
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Rabbie Burns View Drop Down
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Points: 3322 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rabbie Burns Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2023 at 16:05
Sentiment aside Breakdown, Richmond finished in the relegation spot irrespective of what other teams did which was totally within the rules. Last season we had the farce where only 2 teams in the country were relegated both from Nat 1 and the teams that replaced them have come straight back down but thems the breaks so we have get on with it. I’m quite sure Richmond will be pushing at the top end of N1  next season and perhaps you will enjoy winning a league game again and resetting similar to what Blackheath have done this year, although it’s a bitter pill in sport sometimes you need to swallow it.
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Originally posted by Breakdown Breakdown wrote:

My understanding is that Richmond go down regardless because promotion/relegation at Tier 2/3 was never dependent on the ultimate fate of Wasps, Worcester or anyone else.

But on the point about who "should" or should not be in the Championship, it does seem to me as a biased observer that it says a lot about the state of the game that the club being relegated is the one 

* with its own ground
* with 4 Men's XVs (+Vets), 2 Women's TVs, Colts, Students, Juniors and Minis (approx 550)
* financially self-sustaining after the horror of the Premiership
* that has never used more than 3 and normally no more than 2 Loanees/DRs in a 23
* that has a substantial cash balance in the bank
* which has no wealthy owners (unless you count the entire membership/ownership corpus as being collectively wealthy, which I am sure it is)
* that does not pay unsustainable salaries to players but helps them have careers as well as playing at the highest possible level
* that competes with fully professional teams (most of the time, if not quite well enough) on two training sessions a week
* that sustains the spirit of rugby in its playing ethos
* that has cheap beer
* that tries to put up with the conduct of other clubs that behave, shall we say, not always in the most gentlemanly of ways, without too much moaning.

I am not saying nobody else has any of those factors, but nobody else has all of them. So all the other things people moan about (loans, sugar daddies, teams v clubs) do not apply to Richmond, but we are the ones who are dropping out.

Like I say, to me, that says a lot about the way rugby is heading. 

There is absolutely no place for well run clubs at the top levels of English rugby.

Embrace being back in the National League where rugby is honest!
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Halliford View Drop Down
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Points: 4146 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halliford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2023 at 16:08
The crucial point in Breakdown’s post is the cheap beer!

Seriously though, it does seem to me that minimum standards are needed at Level 2 and Level 3. I know the Chair of NLR has strong views on this. Clubs should be more than one team, have a community presence and good facilities for both spectators and players. 
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Points: 3630 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tigerburnie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2023 at 16:15
So a lot like the restrictions the PRL impose on Championship sides to maintain the cartel then? Nothing to do with who wins or loses, just if your face fits, rugby really does seem to be rotten to the core doesn't it?
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Rabbie Burns View Drop Down
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Points: 3322 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rabbie Burns Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2023 at 16:16
I have put this before, there used to be a set of minimum standards for all leagues which were sent out each year by the NCA and each club was inspected. This hasn’t happened for a lot of years and I don’t think there is such a document around but in saying that I think from memory most clubs in N1 & N2SE would now meet the standard that was set at that time.
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Halliford View Drop Down
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Points: 4146 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halliford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2023 at 16:50
Originally posted by tigerburnie tigerburnie wrote:

So a lot like the restrictions the PRL impose on Championship sides to maintain the cartel then? Nothing to do with who wins or loses, just if your face fits, rugby really does seem to be rotten to the core doesn't it?

Absolutely nothing like the restrictions imposed by PRL on the Championship! Just trying to ensure that Clubs at semi-professional level provide the right facilities for players and spectators. Shame you can't see beyond the negative!
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Points: 3630 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tigerburnie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2023 at 17:43
Originally posted by Halliford Halliford wrote:

Originally posted by tigerburnie tigerburnie wrote:

So a lot like the restrictions the PRL impose on Championship sides to maintain the cartel then? Nothing to do with who wins or loses, just if your face fits, rugby really does seem to be rotten to the core doesn't it?

Absolutely nothing like the restrictions imposed by PRL on the Championship! Just trying to ensure that Clubs at semi-professional level provide the right facilities for players and spectators. Shame you can't see beyond the negative!
No doubt the PRL will say exactly the same thing about their rules.
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Points: 461 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Neasham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2023 at 17:43
It seems obvious the way things are going that clubs like Richmond will come into their own as others, who spend their money on transient players instead of their asset,  implode.
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Originally posted by Neasham Neasham wrote:

It seems obvious the way things are going that clubs like Richmond will come into their own as others, who spend their money on transient players instead of their asset,  implode.

To a certain extent Richmond have the benefit of a 10 million + catchment area, many of whom have been to schools where rugby is played. Again, many will be in full time employment and play for pleasure not necessarily personal advancement; hence no need for a large player cost base. There is also a cachet playing for long established London clubs. 

Cambridge played a pre-season match in September 1971 and received a hefty trouncing. I seem to remember being run through by Chris Ralston!




Edited by FHLH - 19 May 2023 at 18:05
"My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts."
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Originally posted by tigerburnie tigerburnie wrote:

Originally posted by Halliford Halliford wrote:

Originally posted by tigerburnie tigerburnie wrote:

So a lot like the restrictions the PRL impose on Championship sides to maintain the cartel then? Nothing to do with who wins or loses, just if your face fits, rugby really does seem to be rotten to the core doesn't it?

Absolutely nothing like the restrictions imposed by PRL on the Championship! Just trying to ensure that Clubs at semi-professional level provide the right facilities for players and spectators. Shame you can't see beyond the negative!
No doubt the PRL will say exactly the same thing about their rules.

Football applies minimum standards down to the very lowest levels of the pyramid. Do you think that sport is also nothing to do with who wins and loses but just if your face fits and so is rotten to the core?

Or could it just be you have massively overreacted?
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From what I was told yesterday at the Cambridge SGM.

No championship club has seen the Premiership Cup fixtures, so we are all working from the same rumours and some basic knowledge of how a round-robin has to work.

Championship fixtures are due out in mid-June, but we do not have a draft yet.

Everyone assumes we are going to a ten team Championship next season. So we expect two or three teams, to permit promotion, to be relegated. But there is no formal plan. 

People are assuming that London Irish are toast, so no relegation from the premiership next season - unless a miracle happens, and they permit one of us to be promoted.

There is no certainty on funding for this year, let alone next.

Cambridge have made some signings, but are not going to start making announcements until our DoR is back from his vacation. Then we will do a phased release of information to build excitement.

Cambridge will run a 2nd XV in a new Herts Merit League, as well as the 3rds in Eastern Counties.
Sweeney Delenda Est
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Points: 4146 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halliford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2023 at 15:16
How times change! One of my friends has shared an Esher programme from 2003/4 when we were in National 2 (now National 1). On 20th September Esher beat Cambridge 85-0 in the Powergen Cup. That's serious nostalgia!
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