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Why 10 teams?

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The Blues View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Blues Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2023 at 10:47
To be fair the Blues have frozen prices for 2 or 3 years before the increase. It also includes the Saints hole friendly and the cup which will be a little more exciting than the previous version.

Edited by The Blues - 04 Jun 2023 at 10:47
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2023 at 11:16
Originally posted by Sid James Sid James wrote:

Originally posted by Robb Robb wrote:

Sounds like a crackpot idea from that advisor they brought in from that lesser code. What is the point of reducing the number of teams? Surely that is less money, not more? Can they not see the right answer is to stop behaving like a cartel, let promotion/relegation happen naturally and dump the minimum standards criteria.

"lesser code"!!
Typically foolish comment from the south east and a good example of what has always been a problem with our game.
Quite. An embarrassing stance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WEvans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2023 at 12:12
Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

Originally posted by kempstonblue kempstonblue wrote:

A side note, issue.

Recently discovered advance match ground tickets at Bedford going up from £19.00 to £23.50.

I work shifts and cannot guarantee getting to every home match, so it’s match by match see if I am working.

If this ten team franchise emerges, I wonder what ticket prices will be 24/25 season? For people like me, we will find the money. But when I can watch other entertainment like IMAX or 4DX movies for £18/£20 how easy it to get someone to stand outside in January, with many second tier clubs having few seats, wind and rain. When a cinema, nice seats, dry and warm costs similar price? 

Yet, I just feel some at HQ think a rebrand, and tweak of numbers will see customers flooding into the lucky/misfortuned 10 teams.


But you cannot enjoy a match of rugby, with a pie and a pint and good camaraderie in a cinema.

A committed supporter will not be that worried about the cost

Absolutely right Raider but the problem few running the game realise is that there aren't very many of us committed folk.

And there will be far fewer committed to a franchise "club".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2023 at 16:32
Why 10 teams, because it has always been the PRL's aim to have 10 team, and we have always been at war with East Asia.

Why ten in the Championship, because that then gives four pools of five for the Cup. I believe it is no more than that.

With no favoured teams needing to be relegated, I suspect there will be no more talk of the second tier being funded. The ten are not keen to give anything away.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kempstonblue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2023 at 17:00
Originally posted by Richard Lowther Richard Lowther wrote:

If you think of 10 geographical areas of England (plus Channel Islands) then can we fit in teams to fit... 
1 North East
2 North West 
3 Yorkshire 
4 East Midlands 
5 West Midlands
6 South Midlands/Thames Valley
7 Anglia
8 London 
9 South (with Jersey) 
10 South West

Whilst thinking of franchise’s, initially thought of current Mens Championship, but had a thought, could a franchisee be expected to have a Womens team?
So Bedford and Ampthill might have to ‘bid’ against Old Albanians.

Cambridge against Bury St Edmunds?


Looking forward to new beginnings.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote JohnLowe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2023 at 17:01
I wonder if one of the RFU working party will be pushing for a franchise called Yorkshire and based in Leeds?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote KnightsBoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2023 at 17:15
Originally posted by JohnLowe JohnLowe wrote:

I wonder if one of the RFU working party will be pushing for a franchise called Yorkshire and based in Leeds?

Now now John, you know they tried that and it failed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pirate Pig Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2023 at 17:56
I have seen it mentioned by premiership clubs that 10 is the preferred option as it will allow for proper rest periods throughout the season for players increasing player welfare which has become a concern.
The premiership cup will be retained and will be played during the autumn international period with further rounds played during the 6 nations.
This will allow league matches to be played when all of the club's international players are available thereby making it a better product across the 18 league games.
I don't expect to see anything like level funding for a tier 2 club as the premiership sides know that 3 home games in the cup will be almost guaranteed sell outs and a ' good ' earner for a level 2 club.
I suspect that promotion/ relegation will remain in the form of a play off between the bottom placed premiership side and the tier 2 winners.
The conundrum for the RFU is how are they going to improve the failing academy system where young players are getting less game time and the conversion rate from under 20 level to full international is falling.
Will academy players go out on season long loans to tier 2 club's or will they be even more radical and place the academies with level 2 club's on a full time basis.
This would help the level 2 club's enormously and help fill any funding shortfall.
Whatever is decided I feel that rugby on and off the field is in crisis and the RFU/ PRL must get this right for the long term future of the game we all love.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2023 at 18:35
The rugby paper had an article noting the failure of the academies to produce a pool of talent.
But it offered no solutions.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halliford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2023 at 21:36
If you have listened to Conor O’Shea you will know that he seeks a 10 team Premiership so that all of those teams can be at full strength for all League games. He wants more Academy and young players to get game time at Level 2 and Level 3. He wants a sustainable Level 2 in which the RFU can invest and seek an ROI. He sees franchises only as a way of investing in teams in under-represented areas of the country - East London, Southampton, Birmingham and the North East have been mentioned in that respect.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2023 at 22:09
Originally posted by Halliford Halliford wrote:

If you have listened to Conor O’Shea you will know that he seeks a 10 team Premiership so that all of those teams can be at full strength for all League games. He wants more Academy and young players to get game time at Level 2 and Level 3. He wants a sustainable Level 2 in which the RFU can invest and seek an ROI. He sees franchises only as a way of investing in teams in under-represented areas of the country - East London, Southampton, Birmingham and the North East have been mentioned in that respect.

And where in East London would this team play? Olympic Stadium? West Ham say no. Leyton Orient? Maybe, 10k enough? Dagenham & Redbridge? Too small and pitch not good enough quality. 

Southampton would have to be St Mary's, Birmingham have plenty of options. North East either Darlington, Leeds or Newcastle/Sunderland.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Blues Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2023 at 22:40
Originally posted by Robb Robb wrote:

Originally posted by Halliford Halliford wrote:

If you have listened to Conor O’Shea you will know that he seeks a 10 team Premiership so that all of those teams can be at full strength for all League games. He wants more Academy and young players to get game time at Level 2 and Level 3. He wants a sustainable Level 2 in which the RFU can invest and seek an ROI. He sees franchises only as a way of investing in teams in under-represented areas of the country - East London, Southampton, Birmingham and the North East have been mentioned in that respect.

And where in East London would this team play? Olympic Stadium? West Ham say no. Leyton Orient? Maybe, 10k enough? Dagenham & Redbridge? Too small and pitch not good enough quality. 

Southampton would have to be St Mary's, Birmingham have plenty of options. North East either Darlington, Leeds or Newcastle/Sunderland.

If these areas had interest… they would have a team that has risen through the leagues! 

I think Level 2 is more sustainable than Level 1.

Franchises work where you have multi-purpose stadiums or where geography dictates, it won’t work in England. The country to copy is France.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote corporalcarrot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2023 at 07:01
Originally posted by Halliford Halliford wrote:

If you have listened to Conor O’Shea you will know that he seeks a 10 team Premiership so that all of those teams can be at full strength for all League games. He wants more Academy and young players to get game time at Level 2 and Level 3. He wants a sustainable Level 2 in which the RFU can invest and seek an ROI. He sees franchises only as a way of investing in teams in under-represented areas of the country - East London, Southampton, Birmingham and the North East have been mentioned in that respect.
The proposal may make sense in under-represented areas and frankly should have worked at Leeds where they had a brilliant stadium and academy facilities just down the hill. Support generally follows winners, can evaporate quickly and probably has deep pockets and short arms.
Dont kick it. Pick it up and GO FORWARD.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rugbychris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2023 at 07:12
East London already has a well established club. East London RFC. They playing Essdx Counties 1. A great club who work incredibly hard to bring rugby to a non-rugby public. If the RFU think 10,000 would be supporters are just waiting to watch franchise rugby they are sorely mistaken.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tigerburnie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2023 at 09:05
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

The rugby paper had an article noting the failure of the academies to produce a pool of talent.
But it offered no solutions.


The academies are producing good talent, all the leagues are testament to that, now the fact the RFU hired a bloke who wouldn't use them is not the fault of the academies.
Leicester Tigers have produced many over recent years, some barely 20 years old will be in the English, Welsh and I think Scottish world cup teams this year. The rugby paper is showing it's ignorance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote billesleyexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2023 at 09:19
Originally posted by The Blues The Blues wrote:

If these areas had interest… they would have a team that has risen through the leagues! 


Sometimes I wonder if I've dreamed the last 150 years. Birmingham didn't need a team to rise through the leagues because it had one at or near the top - and that was in the Championship until 2016. It also has Championship-level facilities. My completely-not-paranoid worry here is that a 'Birmingham needs a franchise' call is really a trojan horse for Wasps being parachuted in over Moseley's head.

By the way, whilst I'm a Moseley fan, I'd have no quarrel with a Birmingham side rising through the leagues and going past us to the top, it's dumping someone in above us that would grate - to say the least. Southampton or East London is one thing - Birmingham is a completely different case where there is a club that has pretty much always been in level 1 or 2 since leagues began (minus a brief sojourn at level 3 in the mid 2000s and the current situation), but now suddenly 'Birmingham needs a level 2 franchise'

Just so we're clear, I wouldn't particularly want Mose to bid for said franchise (I'd rather get back there via on-pitch performance) - but I think we'd have to to try and maintain the moral highground that Birmingham doesn't need a failed premiership group of nomads dumping on us.

But I suspect it is all a fig leaf for Wasps...


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tigerburnie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2023 at 09:24
Originally posted by billesleyexile billesleyexile wrote:

Originally posted by The Blues The Blues wrote:

If these areas had interest… they would have a team that has risen through the leagues! 


Sometimes I wonder if I've dreamed the last 150 years. Birmingham didn't need a team to rise through the leagues because it had one at or near the top - and that was in the Championship until 2016. It also has Championship-level facilities. My completely-not-paranoid worry here is that a 'Birmingham needs a franchise' call is really a trojan horse for Wasps being parachuted in over Moseley's head.

By the way, whilst I'm a Moseley fan, I'd have no quarrel with a Birmingham side rising through the leagues and going past us to the top, it's dumping someone in above us that would grate - to say the least. Southampton or East London is one thing - Birmingham is a completely different case where there is a club that has pretty much always been in level 1 or 2 since leagues began (minus a brief sojourn at level 3 in the mid 2000s and the current situation), but now suddenly 'Birmingham needs a level 2 franchise'

Just so we're clear, I wouldn't particularly want Mose to bid for said franchise (I'd rather get back there via on-pitch performance) - but I think we'd have to to try and maintain the moral highground that Birmingham doesn't need a failed premiership group of nomads dumping on us.

But I suspect it is all a fig leaf for Wasps...


I share your feelings too, well put.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rabbie Burns Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2023 at 09:40
Think Blackheath are in East London with a southern twist and have been mostly at level 3 and above except for a few years at level 4 over the last 25 years firstly for 3 years around 2001-2004 then last season for one year but doubt if the members would want a franchise
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cherub Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2023 at 09:49
Please excuse my ignorance but I have no idea how a rugby franchise works. Bedford and Ampthill are eight miles apart. Would they have to amalgamate and be called something like East Midlands RFC and have to play at a stadium like MK Dons? Because if that is the case then the idea sucks. Can someone explain in simple English how this would work?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2023 at 09:52
Originally posted by tigerburnie tigerburnie wrote:

Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

The rugby paper had an article noting the failure of the academies to produce a pool of talent.
But it offered no solutions.


The academies are producing good talent, all the leagues are testament to that, now the fact the RFU hired a bloke who wouldn't use them is not the fault of the academies.
Leicester Tigers have produced many over recent years, some barely 20 years old will be in the English, Welsh and I think Scottish world cup teams this year. The rugby paper is showing it's ignorance.

Thanks Tiger.
I thought this was the case too from a Northampton saints angle.
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