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Why 10 teams?

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Richard Lowther View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Why 10 teams?
    Posted: 03 Jun 2023 at 19:07
If the rumours are true and the game ends up with a 10 team Premiership and 10 team Championship, what benefits does that give to the game and the Championship clubs playing in the reduced league?

When the new Professional Game agreement is signed with the Premiership most suggest it will be on reduced financial terms and the Premiership clubs will have to cut their cloth accordingly but have the "benefit" of a ten way rather than 13 way split to soften the blow. 

Do the Championship clubs think they will see more funding as part of this agreement? 
The Premiership Cup fixtures may soften the blow of a smaller league but will the finances be any better than now? 

Will the "new" Premiership 2 be an 'franchised' league with clubs meeting certain criteria, say a minimum crowd capacity and decent veggie food options 😉 and with a good geographic spread which will see the likes of Ampthill and Caldy back into the cold of probably a regionalised league structure below and replaced by The Brand RFC)™ and Darlington MP for example. 

Is the aim of  a Premiership 2 to bridge the gap between the the top two leagues and bring through English Qualified players? 

If no new money is forthcoming does 10 make sense? 




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2023 at 19:39
Sounds like a crackpot idea from that advisor they brought in from that lesser code. What is the point of reducing the number of teams? Surely that is less money, not more? Can they not see the right answer is to stop behaving like a cartel, let promotion/relegation happen naturally and dump the minimum standards criteria.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Geoff DC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2023 at 19:44
Ten Green Prem Clubs hanging from the wall,
And if one Green Prem Club should accidentally fall ????


Edited by Geoff DC - 03 Jun 2023 at 19:48
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Neasham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2023 at 19:51
Originally posted by Richard Lowther Richard Lowther wrote:

If the rumours are true and the game ends up with a 10 team Premiership and 10 team Championship, what benefits does that give to the game and the Championship clubs playing in the reduced league?

When the new Professional Game agreement is signed with the Premiership most suggest it will be on reduced financial terms and the Premiership clubs will have to cut their cloth accordingly but have the "benefit" of a ten way rather than 13 way split to soften the blow. 

Do the Championship clubs think they will see more funding as part of this agreement? 
The Premiership Cup fixtures may soften the blow of a smaller league but will the finances be any better than now? 

Will the "new" Premiership 2 be an 'franchised' league with clubs meeting certain criteria, say a minimum crowd capacity and decent veggie food options 😉 and with a good geographic spread which will see the likes of Ampthill and Caldy back into the cold of probably a regionalised league structure below and replaced by The Brand RFC)™ and Darlington MP for example. 

Is the aim of  a Premiership 2 to bridge the gap between the the top two leagues and bring through English Qualified players? 

If no new money is forthcoming does 10 make sense? 


As someone who now  lives almost in the shadow of the Darlington Arena and who occasionally spectates,  I can tell you there is very little regional or local interest in having a franchise there. We have our own “community” clubs and that’s where our rugby interest lies. That stadium is the most soulless place you could ever watch a game. 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2023 at 20:14
Originally posted by Neasham Neasham wrote:

Originally posted by Richard Lowther Richard Lowther wrote:

If the rumours are true and the game ends up with a 10 team Premiership and 10 team Championship, what benefits does that give to the game and the Championship clubs playing in the reduced league?

When the new Professional Game agreement is signed with the Premiership most suggest it will be on reduced financial terms and the Premiership clubs will have to cut their cloth accordingly but have the "benefit" of a ten way rather than 13 way split to soften the blow. 

Do the Championship clubs think they will see more funding as part of this agreement? 
The Premiership Cup fixtures may soften the blow of a smaller league but will the finances be any better than now? 

Will the "new" Premiership 2 be an 'franchised' league with clubs meeting certain criteria, say a minimum crowd capacity and decent veggie food options 😉 and with a good geographic spread which will see the likes of Ampthill and Caldy back into the cold of probably a regionalised league structure below and replaced by The Brand RFC)™ and Darlington MP for example. 

Is the aim of  a Premiership 2 to bridge the gap between the the top two leagues and bring through English Qualified players? 

If no new money is forthcoming does 10 make sense? 


As someone who now  lives almost in the shadow of the Darlington Arena and who occasionally spectates,  I can tell you there is very little regional or local interest in having a franchise there. We have our own “community” clubs and that’s where our rugby interest lies. That stadium is the most soulless place you could ever watch a game. 

And coldest.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2023 at 20:18
Originally posted by Neasham Neasham wrote:

Originally posted by Richard Lowther Richard Lowther wrote:

If the rumours are true and the game ends up with a 10 team Premiership and 10 team Championship, what benefits does that give to the game and the Championship clubs playing in the reduced league?

When the new Professional Game agreement is signed with the Premiership most suggest it will be on reduced financial terms and the Premiership clubs will have to cut their cloth accordingly but have the "benefit" of a ten way rather than 13 way split to soften the blow. 

Do the Championship clubs think they will see more funding as part of this agreement? 
The Premiership Cup fixtures may soften the blow of a smaller league but will the finances be any better than now? 

Will the "new" Premiership 2 be an 'franchised' league with clubs meeting certain criteria, say a minimum crowd capacity and decent veggie food options 😉 and with a good geographic spread which will see the likes of Ampthill and Caldy back into the cold of probably a regionalised league structure below and replaced by The Brand RFC)™ and Darlington MP for example. 

Is the aim of  a Premiership 2 to bridge the gap between the the top two leagues and bring through English Qualified players? 

If no new money is forthcoming does 10 make sense? 


As someone who now  lives almost in the shadow of the Darlington Arena and who occasionally spectates,  I can tell you there is very little regional or local interest in having a franchise there. We have our own “community” clubs and that’s where our rugby interest lies. That stadium is the most soulless place you could ever watch a game. 




But it would the existing club nothing new just playing up levels because they have a good capacity stadium.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2023 at 21:13
If you think of 10 geographical areas of England (plus Channel Islands) then can we fit in teams to fit... 
1 North East
2 North West 
3 Yorkshire 
4 East Midlands 
5 West Midlands
6 South Midlands/Thames Valley
7 Anglia
8 London 
9 South (with Jersey) 
10 South West


Edited by Richard Lowther - 03 Jun 2023 at 22:05
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheshire exile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2023 at 21:28
I’m going to make the obvious point that, given the RFU thinks the South West starts at Gloucester which is 230 miles from Penzance, one franchise in that space would be insulting, if not surprising.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Blues Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2023 at 21:56
I don’t get reducing to 10 teams, unless they think losing 2 extra home games will mean squads can be cut, which will save more money than the 2 game generate! 

For those clubs with a crowd, the home game generate the money. Lose 2 games (if not replaced) you lose match day sponsors, ticket sales, food and drink sales etc.

In terms of franchise, you probably need to look at population sizes in regions. Franchises will certainly kill the game. They should poll the fans and see how little interest there is with it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PropDad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2023 at 21:59
Poll the fans?

That would imply they actually give a damn !!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2023 at 22:06
Originally posted by The Blues The Blues wrote:

I don’t get reducing to 10 teams, unless they think losing 2 extra home games will mean squads can be cut, which will save more money than the 2 game generate! 

For those clubs with a crowd, the home game generate the money. Lose 2 games (if not replaced) you lose match day sponsors, ticket sales, food and drink sales etc.

In terms of franchise, you probably need to look at population sizes in regions. Franchises will certainly kill the game. They should poll the fans and see how little interest there is with it.

I'm not suggesting Franchises as in brand new clubs but existing clubs with the minimum agreed criteria in place and their existing fan base. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tigerburnie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2023 at 22:30
The word I was told was that Premier 1 and 2 would both be professional, then along came talk of "franchises for clubs to bid for. My understanding is the "franchises" would be in Prem2 and there would be no "championship", there would be two Nat 1 's and 4 Nat 2's, how much of that is fact and how much of that still remains in the grand master plan I do not know. I believe there's some talk of "playoffs for promotion and relegation", but no flesh on the bones was explained
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kempstonblue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2023 at 04:20
How long is a piece of string? Is my first thought.
Looking forward to new beginnings.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rugbychris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2023 at 06:50
To make this work or even vaguely attractive for teams to take on a franchise the RFU or prem rugby will have to find a minimum of an extra 3 million in funding per franchise. Newcastle and Irish are losing that each season running a fully pro team. 

Why would any well run solvent part-time champ club want to commit financial suicide by becoming part of this 20 team pro franchise set-up.

Surely this isn't even a consideration for the future? Looking at attendances at matches I would think England could at a push sustain 6 pro teams.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kempstonblue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2023 at 07:54
Outside the faithful how many people know where the local rugby club is, and when they play?

I often look at my local area.
Newspapers - 1 contains one sports page, free publication hit or miss deliveries, sports editor covers 16 he told me. Population covered by title 250,000.
Local Radio -1, local commercial has a regional show covering 8 counties and News being 60/120 seconds does not touch local sport. BBC Local 3 Counties population 2 million, 5 professional soccer teams

Yet, in theory many outsiders would imagine Bedford as a location for a franchise.

Before any money is poured down drains.

What will the RFU do to get the attention and support of local media, so it won’t just be the faithful knowing where and when games are.
Looking forward to new beginnings.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kempstonblue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2023 at 08:08
A side note, issue.

Recently discovered advance match ground tickets at Bedford going up from £19.00 to £23.50.

I work shifts and cannot guarantee getting to every home match, so it’s match by match see if I am working.

If this ten team franchise emerges, I wonder what ticket prices will be 24/25 season? For people like me, we will find the money. But when I can watch other entertainment like IMAX or 4DX movies for £18/£20 how easy it to get someone to stand outside in January, with many second tier clubs having few seats, wind and rain. When a cinema, nice seats, dry and warm costs similar price? 

Yet, I just feel some at HQ think a rebrand, and tweak of numbers will see customers flooding into the lucky/misfortuned 10 teams.
Looking forward to new beginnings.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tigerburnie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2023 at 09:21
Don't hold your breath, but someone did say Prem 2 would be "fully funded"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2023 at 09:28
Originally posted by kempstonblue kempstonblue wrote:

A side note, issue.

Recently discovered advance match ground tickets at Bedford going up from £19.00 to £23.50.

I work shifts and cannot guarantee getting to every home match, so it’s match by match see if I am working.

If this ten team franchise emerges, I wonder what ticket prices will be 24/25 season? For people like me, we will find the money. But when I can watch other entertainment like IMAX or 4DX movies for £18/£20 how easy it to get someone to stand outside in January, with many second tier clubs having few seats, wind and rain. When a cinema, nice seats, dry and warm costs similar price? 

Yet, I just feel some at HQ think a rebrand, and tweak of numbers will see customers flooding into the lucky/misfortuned 10 teams.


But you cannot enjoy a match of rugby, with a pie and a pint and good camaraderie in a cinema.

A committed supporter will not be that worried about the cost
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sid James Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2023 at 09:43
Originally posted by Robb Robb wrote:

Sounds like a crackpot idea from that advisor they brought in from that lesser code. What is the point of reducing the number of teams? Surely that is less money, not more? Can they not see the right answer is to stop behaving like a cartel, let promotion/relegation happen naturally and dump the minimum standards criteria.

"lesser code"!!
Typically foolish comment from the south east and a good example of what has always been a problem with our game.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fly Half Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2023 at 10:32
You really are a  embarrassment ' Robb '. Your bigotry really isn't wanted on this site. 


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