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Champ clubs reject Prem 2 franchise model

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gerg_861 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 17 Nov 2023 at 21:00

From Pirates website:The 11 Championship clubs came together today to debate their collective future: whether our league will be best served by capitalising on the potential of its commercial rights and its brand-identity to underpin a truly “whole-game solution” to tier two, or by considering a putative “Premiership 2” based on a franchise model.

 

The clubs agreed unanimously that they are opposed to the franchise model.

 

This was concluded against the backdrop of:

 

  1. our desire to find whole-game solutions rather than creating obstacles within the pyramid of club rugby
  2. significant doubt about whether there would ever be promotion and relegation into and from the Premiership – a basic question of fairness
  3. our objection to a franchise model which would allow non-meritocratic entry to P2
  4. our unwillingness to commit to a tender process

 

The Championship clubs also agreed that they would continue discussions with the RFU while simultaneously exploring concrete ways of strengthening our existing league.

 

Our aim is to sustain a second tier of English rugby that adheres to the following principles:

 

  • The Championship will be at the top of the competitive pyramid in England, open to all clubs who have the ability, aspiration and ambition to compete in it

 

  • The clubs intend to participate in the most competitive environment possible, with an ultimate objective to reach the very top, assuming there is equitable treatment by those currently controlling that route

 

  • We intend to be financially sustainable and will rigorously explore and exploit the potential of the commercial rights and brand identity that our league possesses

 

  • We will offer the highest level of professionalism affordable, aligned with the amateur ethos we hold dear and which is at the heart of the game

 

  • Through the history of our clubs, we represent the proudest traditions and values of rugby and so we will continue to build our community relationships and encourage rugby at all levels

 

  • We commit to work with the RFU and PRL to grow the game from the grassroots upwards, with a focus on developing and encouraging young players as part of a pathway to the top. This will feed through into National teams at all levels.

 

  • We will work with the RPA to set the highest standards for player welfare and education.

 

 

We hope and expect that the Rugby Football Union will wish to continue to support our league as part of a whole-game approach to solving the sport’s challenges. This league, as its principles make clear, will fulfil vital roles in the development of the game in England. It would, if permitted, also continue to act as a connecting bridge between the Premiership, the England national set-up and the rest of the sport at National League and all other levels.

 

We believe this is the only sustainable way forward. It ensures the integrity and the competitive heartbeat of our sport. It will be the best guarantee available for the success of future efforts to improve the quality of play and the quantity of participation, from top to bottom, of English rugby.

 

On the vexed matter of Promotion and Relegation, we will always believe in the right of the best to rise to the top. At present, the well-identified barriers put in our way make this a pipe-dream, but we will work unceasingly to challenge and correct this.

 

Along with other observers, we have to acknowledge the position in which the Premiership finds itself, and we all have to find a sustainable way forward. For the National Leagues and below, we would welcome the competition that our vision of the future guarantees, a future based on on-field success.

 

Having agreed these principles, the Championship clubs have authorised the Executive of the Championship to go ahead with the production of a comprehensive plan for our continuing league, to be presented to other stakeholders in the game as soon as practicable.

 

We fully appreciate the consequential effects of our decision to reject a franchise system. However, we feel certain that we have taken account of all the key components that can form a successful and sustainable recovery of rugby in this country, at least as far as it concerns the elements of the future that we can influence.



Edited by gerg_861 - 17 Nov 2023 at 21:00
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Robb View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2023 at 21:04
Quite rightly. Well done Championship.
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*Stalwart View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote *Stalwart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2023 at 22:09
This is great - time to stand up and be counted.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Old Gold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2023 at 10:19
Absolutely the correct decision. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WEvans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2023 at 12:24
It would be good to think their views will be respected but I have my doubts. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gerg_861 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2023 at 13:23
Good story about this on the front page of The Rugby Paper. I do not think that they are being at all alarmist in saying that if the proposed PGA goes ahead, Twickenham will end up put in hock. An SGM must be called, and Sweeney MUST go.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SK 88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2023 at 14:56
Twickenham is already "in hock", it is already used as security for the RFU's debts. Putting Twickenham into its own company & selling a proportion of it would probably be an extremely healthy thing for rugby overall.

What we really need is transparency from the RFU, what is explicitly being proposed so we can see what complaints are justified and what ones aren't. Similarly, what is the alternative proposal being put forward by the Championship or others?  If the choice is between a flawed RFU plan and nothing then it's no real choice at all.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2023 at 15:01
The problem is that you need 100 signatures, and for most clubs this is not an issue.
They never got anything from the RFU before, and do see that they will get less now.
Sweeney Delenda Est
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gerg_861 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2023 at 16:01
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

The problem is that you need 100 signatures, and for most clubs this is not an issue.
They never got anything from the RFU before, and do see that they will get less now.
It really should be though. Tens of millions should be diverted from the Prem cartel back to the constituent clubs. This is literally a situation where the clubs could vote for more presents for christmas. I am baffled as to why they don't.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote workerbee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2023 at 18:02
The issue is simple - There is a lot of talk about what the RFU would like to happen but it is all conjecture as they have never put it down on paper or met with the Championship clubs to negotiate, The new deal with the Premiership has been done behind closed doors and the Championship or the rest of the clubs in the country are not aware of the details. How can a deal be done which puts the RFU into so much debt not be put to the constituent clubs before it is signed off as effectively we will be carrying the burden. The RFU is for all not just 10 clubs. Any future income will be swallowed up, so no more loans or grants no more 4G pitches. The premiership will go one whilst many clubs and teams will shrivel up and die. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Stuartnottingham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2023 at 19:24
Who puts Sweeney in charge ? Do all clubs in the country vote for the council members? If so why oh why are we letting Sweeney destroy club rugby in this country . On the verge of something spectacular . YES clubs moving to the URC. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2023 at 20:46
Sweeney is the CEO
He is not elected.

The chair of the Board of Directors and the Portfolio Directors shall be appointed by the
Board of Directors, provided that (subject to Rule 12.8) each may only take office
following the ratification of the appointment by the Council and the Members. The
Council and the Members may only either ratify, or not ratify, such appointments; they
may not propose alternative candidates for appointment.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2023 at 09:14
If you remember, after Will Carling called the Council 57 old windbags, there was a call for "modernization".

This was a code word used in the 90s and 2000s for removing democratic control and putting unelected managers in place. It happened in politics, in charities as well as in sport.

So we got the RFU board, a set of managers, appointed by the board, and officially under the oversight of the council and the members - through General Meetings

However, the powers of the council were severely limited.
The General Meeting officially has power, but most cubs send a proxy vote to be used by the chair.

There are external non-executive directors, who are meant to bring their expertise, and they should also hold the executive directors to account. The main reason for having them is to qualify for Sports England funding, however their fees eat up much of that funding.

The non-executive have to be reappointed by the Annual General Meeting, which is controlled by the Chair and those proxy votes.
Sweeney Delenda Est
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Eddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2023 at 10:33
Camquin,

As usual the level of detail you bring to the debate is illuminating. The current structure provides no check or effective oversight of the executive management of the RFU. You would expect that in any effective governance structure, incompetence, self interest and delusional PR would be quickly rooted out.

There do not appear to be any such checks and balances within the RFU. It is like climate change....we all know it is happening but there is no effective international body that can actually prevent the inevitable disaster.  

I think it likely that the RFU has now probably gone beyond the tipping point and that the extinction of rugby as we know it is also inevitable


Edited by Big Eddie - 20 Nov 2023 at 10:34
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BP Youth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2023 at 10:53
Paraphrasing Monty Python, has the time now come for L2 and below to ask " What have the RFU done for us?"
The reply won't be as long or as funny as the scene in Life of Brian 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2023 at 12:18
To get to the 100 clubs, are you asking your respective clubs to vote for a SGM? It's a far more practical step than complaining on here. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Eddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2023 at 13:02
Originally posted by Richard Lowther Richard Lowther wrote:

To get to the 100 clubs, are you asking your respective clubs to vote for a SGM? It's a far more practical step than complaining on here. 

A very valid point Richard but I suspect that the apathy in regard to all of this is part of the problem. In my case I used to be passionate about the lack of equity and fairness in just about everything that the Executive of the RFU did. 

However, such is the hard wired malaise within the RFU I am now pretty much beyond caring and I suspect many other are as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FHLH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2023 at 14:07
Originally posted by Big Eddie Big Eddie wrote:

......such is the hard wired malaise within the RFU I am now pretty much beyond caring and I suspect many other are as well.

I've sat here reading this thread and end up thinking, as I have done for a long time, what is the purpose of the RFU? 

For all the fine words on the Annual Report, I wonder if it does anything other than serve the 10 clubs in the Premiership.

It has ~700 employees - what do they do?

I suspect that the majority of the administration below Level 2 could be outsourced to a country with a lower cost base or to a region in the UK where London weighting wouldn't apply.
"My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2023 at 14:14
If you do try to get clubs to send in letters, the person you need to send them to is ... Bill Sweeney.
Clubs do not want to be the first to put their head above the parapet, so you get more excuses than Gary Cooper in High Noon.

I did try, and got enough letter to cause a stir, but not enough to trigger an SGM.
Even if you get all the Championship and National league clubs, you are 26 clubs short.

The council has called for change, immediately before the world cup.

We shall see.

Sweeney Delenda Est
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2023 at 15:18
To get the numbers, not just the 100 for the SGM but a majority to change the status quo, there must be a demonstration to the rest of the club that is it their money which is being wasted. Argue they could receive £X, 000 a season to improve their ground, provide coaching, buy new kit, purchase a mini bus etc and you would garner support from clubs that could do with this money and equipment.

Until you do that a club at level 9njust aren't interested as long as they get their share of international tickets. 
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