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Premiership II plans announced

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clieves View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clieves Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2024 at 09:54
Wikipedia has Waterloo at 9000, although I'd imagine 6000 is nearer the mark, approx 400 seats
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2024 at 11:17
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

Rams move seems more about growing the wider club, with more pitches for mini and youth, than just about improving the first team facilities. Apparently they have a waiting list to join the mini and youth, as they do not have space for them.

Wikipedia gives the following figures. They are as accurate as anything on that site.

25,000 seats
--------------
Darlington

5,000 capacity and  > 1,000 seats
--------------------------------------

Coventry
Bedford
Doncaster
Plymouth
Birmingham

5,000 Capacity  < 1,000 seats
----------------------------------

Guernsey
Camborne
Fylde
Otley
Preston

Several sides are just below 5,000.

I was confused for the moment there with Birmingham and then the penny dropped- Moseley! 

Otley would like to move to a new ground and I have doubts it will have anything like that number of seats at at the new location. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A. Gorilla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2024 at 11:29
There's your geographical spread Bill Sweeney!

25,000 seats
--------------
Darlington - Falcons

5,000 capacity and  > 1,000 seats
--------------------------------------

Coventry - Tigers
Bedford - Saints
Doncaster - Sale
Plymouth - Chiefs 
Birmingham - Warriors 
Scottish- Quins

There was talk of Prem 2 being made up of clubs being aligned to established Prem outfits - like Scottish are to Quins. Basically copying the Yanks Major League / Minor League baseball model. See above and you're halfway there already - save for some dodgy midlands/ S. Yorks/ Lancs geography!

Stranger things have happened.


Edited by A. Gorilla - 16 Jan 2024 at 11:30
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thatbloke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2024 at 14:44
I doubt Otley would come anywhere near to obtaining a safety certificate for anything like 5000. I visited last year and yes they've got a wooden stand (fire risk) but the rest is just crumbling terracing overrun with weeds and shrubs poking through - I played there the week after the North beat the All Blacks way back and it doesn't look to have changed one jot. It doesn't look to have had any money spent on it in the last 25 years (but why would you if hoping to move to a new ground?) No offence or disrespect to Otley intended - great club!! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FHLH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2024 at 18:44
When is a brand not a brand?

If Wasps are a key brand, then head and shoulders above are:

  • London Welsh
  • Richmond
  • Fylde
  • London Scottish
  • Moseley
  • Blackheath
  • Orrell
  • Bedford
  • Coventry
  • Nottingham
  • Birkenhead Park
  • Waterloo
but key brands do not include:

  • Ealing
  • Ampthill
  • Hartpury
  • Caldy
  • Cambridge
  • Doncaster
  • Pirates
  • Exeter
  • Worcester
  • Jersey
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2024 at 19:31
You forgot Wakefield.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FHLH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2024 at 20:03
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

You forgot Wakefield.

It was on my list .....


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coventrian Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2024 at 20:11
Coventry have slightly under 3,000 seats (circa 2,850)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NeverbeentoChinnor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2024 at 20:30
Originally posted by clieves clieves wrote:

Wikipedia has Waterloo at 9000, although I'd imagine 6000 is nearer the mark, approx 400 seats

Waterloo was in my head this morning when thinking of North-West clubs with a decent crowd capacity. I was there (I'm not Max) when they beat the Barbarians in their centenary year in the early 80s beating a team that had Graham Mourie and Murray Mexted in the back row. Big Jim Syddall was playing for Waterloo along with Alan Simpson at fly-half. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seagoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2024 at 22:27
Waterloo?  FFS  They currently play at level SIX!  Doubt that they have had a crowd of over 1000 for MANY years
 I thought that we were wanting a meritocracy, not dragging up clubs from 4 levels below the Championship Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FHLH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2024 at 00:33
Originally posted by seagoon seagoon wrote:

Waterloo?  FFS  They currently play at level SIX!  Doubt that they have had a crowd of over 1000 for MANY years
 I thought that we were wanting a meritocracy, not dragging up clubs from 4 levels below the Championship Confused

Ouch I was trying to demonstrate the foolishness of using the term "brand" 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clieves Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2024 at 11:18
Originally posted by FHLH FHLH wrote:

Originally posted by seagoon seagoon wrote:

Waterloo?  FFS  They currently play at level SIX!  Doubt that they have had a crowd of over 1000 for MANY years
 I thought that we were wanting a meritocracy, not dragging up clubs from 4 levels below the Championship Confused

Ouch I was trying to demonstrate the foolishness of using the term "brand" 

I was just pointing out the facilities they have at their disposal ....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clieves Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2024 at 11:20
Originally posted by NeverbeentoChinnor NeverbeentoChinnor wrote:

Originally posted by clieves clieves wrote:

Wikipedia has Waterloo at 9000, although I'd imagine 6000 is nearer the mark, approx 400 seats

Waterloo was in my head this morning when thinking of North-West clubs with a decent crowd capacity. I was there (I'm not Max) when they beat the Barbarians in their centenary year in the early 80s beating a team that had Graham Mourie and Murray Mexted in the back row. Big Jim Syddall was playing for Waterloo along with Alan Simpson at fly-half. 

What a night that was, to beat the Barbarians! I was one of the youngsters waiting tables at the post match dinner.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NeverbeentoChinnor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2024 at 11:42
Originally posted by clieves clieves wrote:

Originally posted by NeverbeentoChinnor NeverbeentoChinnor wrote:

Originally posted by clieves clieves wrote:

Wikipedia has Waterloo at 9000, although I'd imagine 6000 is nearer the mark, approx 400 seats

Waterloo was in my head this morning when thinking of North-West clubs with a decent crowd capacity. I was there (I'm not Max) when they beat the Barbarians in their centenary year in the early 80s beating a team that had Graham Mourie and Murray Mexted in the back row. Big Jim Syddall was playing for Waterloo along with Alan Simpson at fly-half. 

What a night that was, to beat the Barbarians! I was one of the youngsters waiting tables at the post
 match dinner.


Yes, it was great to watch particularly as Alan had lived opposite me in College Halls. Couldn't kick but his double dummy scissors was a thing of beauty honed at Cowley school. 

And Wasps lost their centenary match against the Baa-Baas so they are definitley a lower brand than Waterloo. LOL



Edited by NeverbeentoChinnor - 17 Jan 2024 at 20:32
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2024 at 14:25
Re 'Brands'.

One of the reasons Football has been a success is the continuation of an open gangway that allows successful clubs to rise and failing clubs to fall.  It values no one club above another (although the 'big five' English clubs have a high opinion of themselves).

This jeopardy of relegation and the prospect of promotion up the pyramid creates interests. Interest drives support, sponsorship and media coverage. 

Rugby should be learning from these lessons. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Toulouse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2024 at 14:34
Originally posted by Cherub Cherub wrote:

Is it not a good idea to put down in writing a template of what the Championship sides want going forward. I can start things off. Please feel free to add some ideas, mock my suggestions, and suggest amendments, but let's see if we can build up a blueprint.

I am assuming the premiership will remain a ten club outfit.

I am suggesting the Championship becomes a 14 team league, with the top three teams from National League One joining in.

TEAMS
1.     Ealing Trailfinders
2.     Coventry
3.     Bedford
4.     Doncaster
5.     Cornish Pirates
6.     Hartpury College
7.     Ampthill
8.     Caldy
9.     Cambridge
10.     London Scottish
11.     Nottingham
12.     Chinnor
13.     Rams
14.     Plymouth Albion

PROMOTION AND RELEGATION
•     There will be no play offs.
•     The team who finishes top of the Championship will be promoted to the Premiership, swapping places with the bottom team in the Premiership.
•     The team who finishes top of the Championship must have a ground capacity of 5,001 plus.
•     The two teams who finish bottom in the Championship will be relegated and replaced by the top two sides in National League One.

SQUADS
•     The squads for each Championship side cannot exceed 35.
•     Full details of the squad must be submitted one week before the first game of the season.
•     The introduction of a transfer window in January every year.

FUNDING
•     The RFU will fund each club with a minimum of £500,000 per annum.
•     A TV contract will be agreed to show live Championship matches with the monies being split equally between all the Championship sides.

Just a bit of fun really with a serious hidden side.

Give this man Sweeney's job!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2024 at 15:27
I think it's football that is the exception.

No other sport has promotions and relegations to the same extent.

Plenty of sports thrive without.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2024 at 16:06
Originally posted by Paul10 Paul10 wrote:

I think it's football that is the exception.

No other sport has promotions and relegations to the same extent.

Plenty of sports thrive without.

I disagree. 

Only the indoor team sports of Basketball and Ice Hockey don't have promotion and relegation at the elite level - they tend to at lower levels.  Looking at the constant churn of clubs in both these sports you could question if they would benefit from the introduction of an open gangway.

Field Hockey again has leagues - they tend to more regionalised. 

Cricket has a league for the County Championship, T20 and Hundred. 

Rugby League has leagues - but has raised the drawbridge for their top level. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2024 at 16:17
I'm not with you.

Cricket has counties.
A finite number.
Rather like Irish rugby.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billesleyexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2024 at 16:19
Originally posted by Richard Lowther Richard Lowther wrote:

 

Rugby League has leagues - but has raised the drawbridge for their top level. 


not really, they've just made promotion and relegation mindbendingly complicated, and not just down to performance on the pitch. Put it this way, next season you wouldn't want to be London Broncos - who are virtually certainly relegated from SuperLeague without kicking a ball, or Leigh, who must also be looking nervous despite winning the Challenge Cup and getting into the Grand Final playoffs last season. 

On the other hand, in the Championship, Wakefield Trinity can pretty much afford to plan for life in SuperLeague after next season is done and dusted, and Toulouse won't be far behind. 

There's still P&R, just not as we - or to be fair anyone else in the universe to date - know it!

If the alternative was a closed shop, I'd actually rather we brought in the same arrangement in English RU. 


Edited by billesleyexile - 17 Jan 2024 at 16:20
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