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Splitting the League
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Richard Lowther View Drop Down
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    Posted: 24 Dec 2023 at 11:21

In today's Rugby Paper Nick Easter cautions about splitting the league into two, North and South, arguing

“You want to keep your best players playing rugby. If you split National One up, you are going to saturate the quality, you are going to get a lot of 40/50-point wins and lose some big rivalries."

I disagree and believe it would create more local rivalries and quality would naturally equal out as what happens already across the pyramid.

I don't understand his comment, “From a Chinnor point of view, with a split you wouldn’t have the derby with Rams, which is madness. It’s ridiculous it’s even being spoken about, there’s so many benefits to keeping it as it is."

I don't understand why that fixture would disappear, both teams would be in the Southern half of the draw. Can anyone explain? 
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tigerburnie View Drop Down
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Points: 3630 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tigerburnie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Dec 2023 at 13:15
Some folk don't like change, as a new close follower of the Nat 1 league I'm not really in a position to comment, but it does seem to work as is, the only thing that might be an argument is reducing the miles travelled.
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Originally posted by Richard Lowther Richard Lowther wrote:

In today's Rugby Paper Nick Easter cautions about splitting the league into two, North and South, arguing

“You want to keep your best players playing rugby. If you split National One up, you are going to saturate the quality, you are going to get a lot of 40/50-point wins and lose some big rivalries."

I disagree and believe it would create more local rivalries and quality would naturally equal out as what happens already across the pyramid.

I don't understand his comment, “From a Chinnor point of view, with a split you wouldn’t have the derby with Rams, which is madness. It’s ridiculous it’s even being spoken about, there’s so many benefits to keeping it as it is."

I don't understand why that fixture would disappear, both teams would be in the Southern half of the draw. Can anyone explain? 


Chinnor could well end up as the Southern most part of a northern league.

There are 6 (?) clubs south of them at present.  Cinderford north or south of Thame?



Edited by Paul10 - 24 Dec 2023 at 13:23
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Richard Lowther View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Paul10 Paul10 wrote:

Originally posted by Richard Lowther Richard Lowther wrote:

In today's Rugby Paper Nick Easter cautions about splitting the league into two, North and South, arguing

“You want to keep your best players playing rugby. If you split National One up, you are going to saturate the quality, you are going to get a lot of 40/50-point wins and lose some big rivalries."

I disagree and believe it would create more local rivalries and quality would naturally equal out as what happens already across the pyramid.

I don't understand his comment, “From a Chinnor point of view, with a split you wouldn’t have the derby with Rams, which is madness. It’s ridiculous it’s even being spoken about, there’s so many benefits to keeping it as it is."

I don't understand why that fixture would disappear, both teams would be in the Southern half of the draw. Can anyone explain? 


Chinnor could well end up as the Southern most part of a northern league.

There are 6 (?) clubs south of them at present.  Cinderford north or south of Thame?


But why? The leagues would have to be rejigged to make two viable leagues of 12/14/whatever and these logically be split around the Midlands.

The other impact is the rejigged Premiership 2 and that could see 'quality' teams demoted strengthening the leagues rather than diluting it as per Easter's prediction.
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Even fit the RFU find fourteen franchises to compete in Premiership II, they are unlikely to include any Championship sides.

So the Championship will remain a national league, probably with 14 teams in it - and possibly with a new brand.

Whether we need another national league underneath it, or two divisions, or perhaps three or four, 
should be looked at - but it needs to be part of a coherent league structure.

We have seen what happens if you try and fix it on the back of a fag packet. You get the Papa John Cups.
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Points: 3322 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Rabbie Burns Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Dec 2023 at 16:53
I promised myself I wasn’t going to get angry but this makes my blood boil. There is absolutely no need to split National 1 it makes absolutely no sense. Last season when we were in N2E we had all the local derbies you are talking about but our experience was a loss in 200-300 each week in crowds I don’t think we ever got above 500 despite playing 7oaks and TJs both within 20 miles. Getting back in N1 after the RWC and we are  starting to see the crowds return. Why are they trying to fix something that isn’t broken. N1 is a brilliant competitive league with excellent standards. Tell them to Foxtrot Oscar
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Robb View Drop Down
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Points: 1480 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Dec 2023 at 19:22
You have to go national at some point and 1 before the second tier seems the right place for it to be. Tell them to leave it alone. They already made a mess of N2 by getting rid of playoffs just to cut down on travel times by splitting leagues. I don't trust them to fare any better if they try to split N1.
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Points: 2764 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatbear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Dec 2023 at 09:54
In Football, both Gloucester City and Bishop's Stortford are National League North, and Oxford City were in the North for three season.

If the RFU decides to split National League One, then there is a good chance two from Chinnor, Bishop's Stortford and Cinderford would have to go North.

There are currently 5 "Northern" teams in National League One. If 15 sides need to be promoted from the 3 National League Twos, 7 sides in the current top 5s would be "Northern" so to make a 14 team league, 2 sides would have to move to the North ( although that could also be Bury St Edmunds or Dings ! )


Edited by fatbear - 25 Dec 2023 at 09:57
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Have not read this article yet, but if it does happen is it next season or 25/26?

I think that the Nat 1 title is Chinnor's to lose so they might not be involved if 24/25.


Edited by WILD BOAR 1 - 26 Dec 2023 at 13:46
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Camquin View Drop Down
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You have to be National at the top.
And you have to have local, or county, leagues at the bottom.

The difficult bit is coming up with a coherent structure in the middle that annoys the fewest people.

Especially as within any single club, there will be multiple views of where the club ought to be playing.
Any survey you do will find evidence in support of any thesis - especially if you ignore the other voices.

One sacred cow I would ask, is does rugby have to be 15-a-sdie from September to May?

Is there demand for other forms, 7s, touch etc, - either instead of, or alongside 15s in the spring.
I have to say that while I quite liked going to the old Middlesex 7s final, one day is enough for me.

However, you could imagine a national tournament, with qualifying rounds leading to a finals day at HQ for the top 16 teams.

If there is demand, the big question is, should that be in April and May  - shortening the XV-a-side season, or over summer, effectively extending the season.





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Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:


If there is demand, the big question is, should that be in April and May  - shortening the XV-a-side season, or over summer, effectively extending the season.


With you on 7s - but when? Rock hard in summer. Pitch has alternative uses over the summer to maximise income. 
"My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts."
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Only a personal view but hated playing "7's", can't stand watching it - why it is an Olympic event - God only knows, well actually I do, not long enough to stage a proper event- we don't have 5-a-side football in there though do we?
If there's any "7's"on anywhere, any time I would rather go for a walk with a stone in my shoe! 
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Originally posted by Thatbloke Thatbloke wrote:

Only a personal view but hated playing "7's", can't stand watching it - why it is an Olympic event - God only knows, well actually I do, not long enough to stage a proper event- we don't have 5-a-side football in there though do we?
If there's any "7's"on anywhere, any time I would rather go for a walk with a stone in my shoe! 
I think you might be wrong on every point made  but I happen to agree with every word you said, 7's really does nothing for me either. Cool
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Splitting the league is counter productive and rather pointless.........................................given the past history, it's bound to happen then.
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On reading many things on this site from a lot of people who have been around the game for sometime and know what they are talking about.

I cannot for the life of me understand why, with the backing of member clubs, Sweeney and his over paid employed gang have not been called to task over the running of the game.

The RFU are judge, jury and executioner on everything, but they are very clearly not fit for purpose.

Nobody has any interest in Prem II, The Champ sides made that very clear. The RFU have no interest in the club game, just as long as he ( Sweeney) gets his £650k a year and his list of henchmen and women he's surrounded himself with are all on north of £300k, they could not careless what happens at Caldy in the Champ or an Old Boys club in counties 7.

The best rugby league in the ladder in National 1 and now they want to mess about with it.Why? what experience do they have to say its not working 
They have done that at level 4 by making that 3 leagues, which, and its my view, was very wrong, it should have stayed at 2...with a play off

So Its time the clubs at the grass roots of this game, and Im talking Champ downwards to take this by the scruff of the neck and said enough. We are fed up being walked all over by a team of people that are clueless about the club game

Because if they do not, outside the Prem, this game will collapse.

There are some very well educated people that read Rolling Maul... I would said it would be less than a month before you have enough votes to call and EGM and take these clowns at Twickenham to task and have a sea of change and regain control of the game... Not let the like of Wasps and Worcester go bust with 10's of millions of pounds of debt and say, its ok lads we will get you back in Prem II. 

The NCA is fast becoming a puppet 





Edited by Scrumtime - 27 Dec 2023 at 10:03
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I thought the idea of splitting N1 into 2 leagues had been dropped?

There was no need to split N2 into 3, overall standard has dropped, but that didn't stop the RFU.
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It seems easy for the southern clubs to say splitting up National 1 is pointless. Teams such a Darlington MP have only two localish fixtures Sedgley Park and Sale....still 3hrs away by coach. The cost of travel and hotels for northern clubs is very high. Splitting the league could drastically cut costs. But if you end up with 2 smaller leagues....less home games....reduction in revenue! not easy! 
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Originally posted by Richard Lowther Richard Lowther wrote:

In today's Rugby Paper Nick Easter cautions about splitting the league into two, North and South, arguing

“You want to keep your best players playing rugby. If you split National One up, you are going to saturate the quality, you are going to get a lot of 40/50-point wins and lose some big rivalries."

I disagree and believe it would create more local rivalries and quality would naturally equal out as what happens already across the pyramid.

I don't understand his comment, “From a Chinnor point of view, with a split you wouldn’t have the derby with Rams, which is madness. It’s ridiculous it’s even being spoken about, there’s so many benefits to keeping it as it is."

I don't understand why that fixture would disappear, both teams would be in the Southern half of the draw. Can anyone explain? 

Clubs like Nick Easter's seem to be well off, travel costs and hotels not an issue....not all clubs have the same resources!
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Nat 1 North....DMP, Leicester, Sale, Sedgley Park, Moseley, Leeds Tykes, Rotheram Titans, Sheffield, Fylde Wharfedale, Dudley, Chester, Loughborough and Tynedale.
Nat 2 South.....Esher, Dorking, Chinnor, Rams, Taunton, Cambridge, B. Stortford, Cinderford, Blackheath, Richmond, Rosslyn, Plymouth, Bury St. Edmunds and Henley.
Still 14 teams in each set...cost lower....
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Just as an aside. Last night I was speaking with one of our injured players and he was so keen to get back for next weeks away day to DMP as he said “I love the long away days as the return trips with your mates is a big part of playing at this level” this is not the first time I have been told this.

Plus you have promoted 9 teams into N1 north and 3 into south plus relegated Cambridge. I think that unbalance the standard between North & South. As I’ve already said it doesn’t need split.

And where does the new Prem 2 franchise sit and the current L2 teams that don’t want to sell their souls
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