National League Rugby Discussion Forum Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > League Rugby - www.leaguerugby.co.uk > The Championship
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Average Attendance
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

IMPORTANT Remember to read the rules of the board and abide by them when posting.

Average Attendance

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
The Blues View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 05 Aug 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4932
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Blues Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Average Attendance
    Posted: 10 May 2024 at 22:53
I heard that Blues this season have averaged (I think) 3,042 this league season.  Adding almost 200 on last year.  I guess we will be beaten by Coventry, who have had some impressive attendances but good to see the increases at both, which helps the finances and shows there are well supported teams below the Premiership!
Back to Top
Kimbo View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 31 May 2007
Location: 'incleh
Status: Online
Points: 6416
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Kimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2024 at 23:17
Originally posted by The Blues The Blues wrote:

I heard that Blues this season have averaged (I think) 3,042 this league season.  Adding almost 200 on last year.  I guess we will be beaten by Coventry, who have had some impressive attendances but good to see the increases at both, which helps the finances and shows there are well supported teams below the Premiership!

Average Attendances:
Coventry 3373 (down 67)
Bedford 3061 (down 2)
Doncaster 1884 (=)
C. Pirates 1548 (=))
Cambridge 1411 (=)
Caldy 1182 (up 11)
Nottingham 1133 (down 1)
Ampthill 1069 (=)
Ealing 1024 (up 16)
Hartpury 958 (down 36)
L. Scottish 668 (=)
(The up/down/= refers to the previous round btw)
Our City,
Our Club
Back to Top
Andy_I View Drop Down
Mini and Juniors
Mini and Juniors


Joined: 30 May 2024
Location: West Yorks
Status: Offline
Points: 4
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andy_I Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2024 at 12:18
A long time lurker who you used to occasionally post on TV audiences (back when the championship was on TV)

Here are some useful figures for some context, now regular season is finished.

Premiership total attendance 1,316,849 over 90 games.
Championship total attendance 175,342 over 110 games.

Compared to France:
TOP14 (with 2 rounds to go) 2,204,597 over 168 games (will be around 2.4mil at end)
PROD2  1,345,310 over 240 games.

So you have around 3.75 million watching the top2 domestic leagues in france compared to 1.5million in England.

Then you throw in the TV money, at 9.2M euros per team in top14 and 0.67M for proD2. The Premiership is £2.3M (after CVC's cut) and the Championship is nothing.

It's easy to see why the French can support 30 fully pro teams and England has around 14.

The powers that be, talk of making the Premiership the best league in the world but it's just hot air. They can't compete, as unlike France, they have a rival code and the deepest best supported pyramid in world football.

So they are mostly reliant on RFU subsidy and sugar daddy owners, which is no long term solution. Maybe they could listen to the championship clubs and look at a whole game solution.

Andy I


Edited by Andy_I - 30 May 2024 at 12:21
Back to Top
Nat1 View Drop Down
First XV regular
First XV regular


Joined: 31 Dec 2023
Location: Not given
Status: Offline
Points: 121
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nat1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2024 at 13:50
Some interesting stats there that I hadn't thought about before.

What I would say is that actually, based on those figures, the Prem is equal to the Top14 in France in terms of attendance figures, relative to number of games (eg 90 Prem games to 180-odd Pro 14 games both garnering approx 2.5m. If anything, the Prem would see slightly more. Appreciate its all hypothetical but not the wide gulf you might expect. Obviously the size of the Prem is a contentious issue and a big part of the problem with unsustainable clubs having gone bust, and that's another whole topic of conversation.

Where you see the big difference in figures you have provided is with the respective second tier leagues. If you applied the same number of games to both leagues as per the above with the Prem/Top14 (e.g. attendance/game ratio) the Champ would be left in the dust by some 1m deficit when compared to ProD2. 

I'd suggest that in the current climate, this is where the RFU believe they can gain some ground on their French counterparts and its clear to see that they have been severely lacking in finding the right way forward for a fully pro top two tiers. Hopefully things are finally being addressed with this.


Edited by Nat1 - 30 May 2024 at 14:21
Back to Top
The Blues View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 05 Aug 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4932
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Blues Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2024 at 00:06
Don’t forget all the “home” games where tickets are also sold cheap at Twickenham and Tottenham’s stadium that will also skew the figures for the Premiership making them look better. If Quins or Saracens fill a Twickenham that’s 6 to 10 times a usual home game.
Back to Top
gerg_861 View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 11 Jun 2017
Location: Ealing
Status: Offline
Points: 2681
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gerg_861 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2024 at 10:00
Some brave and good soul has collated all of this on Wikipedia, and I've merged some tables to get the below. Overall 1594 on average this year vs. 1336 last year. Nearly a 20% attendance increase year on year, much fueled by Coventry's surge following Wasps dissolution, but growth everywhere except Caldy. A special shout out to Knights, who also had a huge jump.

ClubHome
Games
TotalAverage 2024HighestAverage 2023 Change YoY
Ampthill1010,5981,0602,837805+255
Bedford Blues1030,6213,0625,0002853+213
Caldy1011,8161,1821,5001288-106
Cambridge1014,1921,4192,054n/a n/a
Cornish Pirates1016,2421,6242,4741509+115
Coventry1033,7333,3735,0472499+874
Doncaster Knights1018,5121,8512,2641062+789
Ealing Trailfinders1011,3541,1352,155994+141
Hartpury109,3409341,603812+122
London Scottish107,3227321,053667+65
Nottingham1011,6121,1611,4171128+33
Back to Top
Paul10 View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 24 Mar 2023
Location: Milton Keynes
Status: Offline
Points: 736
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2024 at 10:21
Thanks Gerg. That helps.

I'm a very occasional visitor to Bedford and it's always a good atmosphere (and it has rained every time).

When the train to Bletchley is switched back on, I'll make more games.

Back to Top
Andy_I View Drop Down
Mini and Juniors
Mini and Juniors


Joined: 30 May 2024
Location: West Yorks
Status: Offline
Points: 4
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andy_I Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2024 at 12:27
Originally posted by The Blues The Blues wrote:

Don’t forget all the “home” games where tickets are also sold cheap at Twickenham and Tottenham’s stadium that will also skew the figures for the Premiership making them look better. If Quins or Saracens fill a Twickenham that’s 6 to 10 times a usual home game.

If you take out the 3 big games the average drops to 12,876. So they do bump the average up a bit.

As for ticket prices, you could go to the Saracens game for as little as £15.  Cheapest spurs tickets are around £60 and the NFL games are over £200!!
Back to Top
WEvans View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 08 Dec 2016
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 1456
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WEvans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2024 at 12:34
Originally posted by gerg_861 gerg_861 wrote:

Some brave and good soul has collated all of this on Wikipedia, and I've merged some tables to get the below. Overall 1594 on average this year vs. 1336 last year. Nearly a 20% attendance increase year on year, much fueled by Coventry's surge following Wasps dissolution, but growth everywhere except Caldy. A special shout out to Knights, who also had a huge jump.

ClubHome
Games
TotalAverage 2024HighestAverage 2023 Change YoY
Ampthill1010,5981,0602,837805+255
Bedford Blues1030,6213,0625,0002853+213
Caldy1011,8161,1821,5001288-106
Cambridge1014,1921,4192,054n/a n/a
Cornish Pirates1016,2421,6242,4741509+115
Coventry1033,7333,3735,0472499+874
Doncaster Knights1018,5121,8512,2641062+789
Ealing Trailfinders1011,3541,1352,155994+141
Hartpury109,3409341,603812+122
London Scottish107,3227321,053667+65
Nottingham1011,6121,1611,4171128+33

The sad fact is that only Coventry and Bedford attract more spectators in a complete season than the top supported Premiership clubs average per game.

And bearing in mind the Premiership is virtually bankrupt as it is who on earth (other than the RFU who appear to live on a different planet) can possibly think two professional divisions is remotely feasible?   
Back to Top
Storty View Drop Down
First XV squad
First XV squad


Joined: 28 Apr 2024
Location: Stortford
Status: Offline
Points: 38
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Storty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2024 at 13:52
Does anyone know the reason behind Cambridge's attendances jumping up from the season before? People just more interested in watching a higher level? Because in Nat 1 they had one of the lower attendances even in the season they won the league. Think the average was under 500. They've done really well to grow their fanbase. 
Back to Top
Paul10 View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 24 Mar 2023
Location: Milton Keynes
Status: Offline
Points: 736
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2024 at 14:28

The sad fact is that only Coventry and Bedford attract more spectators in a complete season than the top supported Premiership clubs average per game.

No sport is financed purely on ticket sales.
I worked in F1 finance for over a decade so know a little about this

Championship needs to understand why rugby benefactors like it and stick with it and maximise that.

.
Back to Top
Runitback View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 22 Sep 2014
Location: North
Status: Offline
Points: 1220
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Runitback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2024 at 14:48
Paltry supporter numbers for LS, is this because no interest in a Harlequins extras team ?
Run with it
Back to Top
WEvans View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 08 Dec 2016
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 1456
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WEvans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2024 at 15:45
Originally posted by Paul10 Paul10 wrote:


The sad fact is that only Coventry and Bedford attract more spectators in a complete season than the top supported Premiership clubs average per game.

No sport is financed purely on ticket sales.
I worked in F1 finance for over a decade so know a little about this

Championship needs to understand why rugby benefactors like it and stick with it and maximise that.

.

Of course rugby isn't financed entirely on ticket sales. That's why I didn't say it was.
 
And if the Premiership has been so unable to understand why rugby benefactors like it and maximise that I really fail to see how the Championship could. But I suspect it's a line of hope popular at the RFU at the moment.
Back to Top
Camquin View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Location: Cambridge
Status: Offline
Points: 11408
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2024 at 15:55
Probably because we went to electronic tickets and got accurate gate numbers.
I suspect we were getting closer to 800 before.

We did get more students, from having Jamie Benton playing.
And we got the odd Bedford fan, on days when they were travelling or were due to play Jersey.

But there definitely were new fans.

Sweeney Delenda Est
Back to Top
FHLH View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar
Cambridge

Joined: 19 Apr 2009
Location: Cambridge
Status: Offline
Points: 5406
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FHLH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2024 at 16:59
Originally posted by Storty Storty wrote:

Does anyone know the reason behind Cambridge's attendances jumping up from the season before? People just more interested in watching a higher level? Because in Nat 1 they had one of the lower attendances even in the season they won the league. Think the average was under 500. They've done really well to grow their fanbase. 

The city of Cambridge is fortunate in having Cambridge University as well as Cambridge as well as Shelford - there's keen interest in rugby. When in National 2 the Cambridge v Shelford local derby brought in over 2,000 at each meeting.

All three clubs have a knowledgeable rugby following and I'm sure some supporters have been teased out of their armchairs by the promise of seeing historic rugby clubs such as Bedford, Coventy, Nottingham and London Scottish (no offence to other clubs) facing up to their local team - as well as the current high achievers such as Ealing, Pirates & Doncaster. When in National 2 the Cambridge v Shelford local derby brought in over 2,000 at each meeting.

Whether we can follow this through into 2024/25 is another matter.
"My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts."
Back to Top
SK 88 View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 08 Sep 2011
Location: Leicester
Status: Offline
Points: 598
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SK 88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2024 at 17:34
Originally posted by Nat1 Nat1 wrote:

Some interesting stats there that I hadn't thought about before.

What I would say is that actually, based on those figures, the Prem is equal to the Top14 in France in terms of attendance figures, relative to number of games (eg 90 Prem games to 180-odd Pro 14 games both garnering approx 2.5m. If anything, the Prem would see slightly more. Appreciate its all hypothetical but not the wide gulf you might expect. Obviously the size of the Prem is a contentious issue and a big part of the problem with unsustainable clubs having gone bust, and that's another whole topic of conversation.

Where you see the big difference in figures you have provided is with the respective second tier leagues. If you applied the same number of games to both leagues as per the above with the Prem/Top14 (e.g. attendance/game ratio) the Champ would be left in the dust by some 1m deficit when compared to ProD2. 

I'd suggest that in the current climate, this is where the RFU believe they can gain some ground on their French counterparts and its clear to see that they have been severely lacking in finding the right way forward for a fully pro top two tiers. Hopefully things are finally being addressed with this.

Yes the big difference isn't actually the size of the biggest clubs (Leicester/Bristol v Bordeaux or Toulouse) it is the massive difference between the number of clubs getting 2k to 8k. In England that is literrally 4 clubs (Sale, Newcastle, Bedford & Cov), whereas in France it is easily 30 clubs across Pro D2 & Nationale 1.

I've used this as an example before, but it you could add 40k regular supporters to club rugby then PRL would add 4k a week to 10 clubs, but the French would add 1k per week to 40 clubs. The RFU would add another tier to Twickenham. That broad base is what generates the TV deals and wider interest.  And with some work (its taken France 20 years) we could move towards that.

Slowly, over time, and with enforced standards off the pitch. As well as free and sporting promotion & relegation within that.

Cov/Bedford sized attendances could be achieved at Moseley, Plymouth, Cornwall, Doncaster, probably Rotherham relatively quickly, Cambridge clearly has potential, Rams could tap into the wider Reading sporting scene.

It's not happening over night but by 2035 two pro leagues with attendances 80% of what the French will be by then is an achievable growth goal.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.04
Copyright ©2001-2021 Web Wiz Ltd.