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London-centric bias

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Greg View Drop Down
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    Posted: 24 Sep 2023 at 12:30
National 2 - East

I make this observation from the perspective of a recent follower of North Walsham.

The current table will show NW firmly rooted at the bottom of this league - played 4, lost 4 (heavily). Last season NW spared themselves from relegation on the last game of the season and it looks as though this season will not be any easier.

It is clear, to me at least, that the clubs closest to Greater London, enjoy a much greater pick of players given the employment situation on offer in the capital and its metropolis. Blackheath, last season's Nat 2 East winners are doing extremely well in Nat 1 and are picking up some very good players.

Rural Norfolk can never compete equally in this scenario, especially when Leicester strip out any of the best young talent and keep them within their academy system.

I guess that my post makes no new points and certainly offers no alternative solutions. I am one who supports the view that the Academies should be taken away from the Premiership clubs and be based on regions - e.g. London & SE; South West, Midlands, East, North West and North East. During their development years those players could go into regionally-based clubs to learn and improve their skills. 


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WEvans View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WEvans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2023 at 12:52
Originally posted by Greg Greg wrote:

....

I am one who supports the view that the Academies should be taken away from the Premiership clubs and be based on regions - e.g. London & SE; South West, Midlands, East, North West and North East. During their development years those players could go into regionally-based clubs to learn and improve their skills. 


The trouble with this is that the best young players in Norfolk (for example) wouldn't have top clubs to go to in order to further develop their skills potentially putting their development behind those in other areas.

(No offence to the likes of North Walsham).
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Greg View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2023 at 13:09
Why the need to feed only the ‘top clubs’ with these academy players. Not all will be good enough for this elite level but many will add quality to clubs further down the national leagues. 
The present system would appear to condemn those clubs furthest away from London to a future of mediocrity. 
We must try to grow the game outside of the Premiership - although something of a rugby backwater Norfolk is producing some quality players (as Leicester might confirm). It is a shame that this is not being reflected at a local level. 
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@boatyjames View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote @boatyjames Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2023 at 17:28
I generally agree with you.
The RFU monies spent on Academies should be spread wider with clubs able to bid for the funding on the basis of an excellent player development proposal. And there should be one in Norwich/Norfolk.
The Pro clubs could work with the junior academies to provide pathways to pro rugby for the best talent.
But in the end you can’t stop young players at sub pro level going to London for jobs and add on rugby jobs. It’s the capital city and has always had the greatest number of clubs etc.
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tigerburnie View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tigerburnie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2023 at 17:52
I don't know, looking at the leagues this season Nat 2 North and West look stronger than East........................Evil Smile
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Greg View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2023 at 18:26
I did wonder how North Walsham might fare in Nat 2 North. For a start, the travelling would be ghastly. 
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Rabbie Burns View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rabbie Burns Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2023 at 19:01
I hate to raise the £££s but if what I was told last season and NW don’t pay players even expenses what motive have players to go as the costs would be high and I would imagine no public transport even if it was a higher level and pardon my ignorance but I don’t know what level of teams play in Norwich and Ipswich the nearest cities (?) so how do you attract players
So many Christians not enough Lions
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PropDad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2023 at 20:42
Greg,

Whilst you may well be correct that “the capital and its metropolis” attracts more players, that’s countered by the huge number of alternatives - other clubs, other sports, other pastimes all act as a distraction.

It’s similar to the inaccurate belief that those rugby clubs in and around London have greater access to sponsors . . . because those same sponsors have many more alternatives where they can invest. 


Edited by PropDad - 24 Sep 2023 at 20:44
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Golden Jackal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2023 at 07:53
Have to agree with Rabbie that when it comes to playing at National League, £££s and chimney pots count.  There will always be a talent drain (especially from rural areas) to the bigger clubs and Academies. North Norfolk is a lovely place to live but unless you have a well paid job, there is a fair chance your going to move for work...if you can then supplement that income by being paid to play Rugby, then even better!   Love my friends at Barnes, but why would anyone want to play there on that pitch in front of 40 people than 400 at Scottow... if you want to play at this level, you have to pay - and probably pay more to persuade talent to play out here.... It is a mystery as to why Norwich and Ipswich do not have higher placed clubs rather than the relative backwaters of Walsham and Bury St Eds...but I think that is down to how well those clubs have been run in comparison... Cambridge's rise to the Championship may help E Anglian rugby who knows. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halliford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2023 at 11:30
London is a giant magnet but, as PropDad says, there is so much else to do. Even rugby - i live 20 minutes from Esher but if i search the RFU for the nearest Club to my postcode there are 4 others nearer. It would be nice to think that those Clubs close together would co-operate but forget it, each club is out to be the best and dont eant to risk that ambition by co-operating with someone else!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WEvans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2023 at 17:01
Originally posted by Greg Greg wrote:

Why the need to feed only the ‘top clubs’ with these academy players. Not all will be good enough for this elite level but many will add quality to clubs further down the national leagues. 
The present system would appear to condemn those clubs furthest away from London to a future of mediocrity. 
We must try to grow the game outside of the Premiership - although something of a rugby backwater Norfolk is producing some quality players (as Leicester might confirm). It is a shame that this is not being reflected at a local level. 

I didn't for one moment suggest there was a need to feed only the top clubs with these players.

And of course not all will be good enough for the elite level and of course many will add quality to clubs at lower levels and of course we need to grow the game outside the Premiership.

Have another look at what I said which was that the best young players (not all of them) might fall behind others in their development if they don't have an opportunity to move to the top clubs. In rugby as in many things in life you develop faster if you are working with those at a higher level so it seems logical to me that if you take two equally promising players and place one with a Premiership club and one with a National League club the former is likely to develop at a faster rate than the latter.

That was all I said. Nothing more and nothing less.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honestinjun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2023 at 23:55
Golden Jackal, do you mind, we had at least 41 on Saturday, probably 40 from Dorking! Actually we have been working on hard on growing the supporters numbers, we may even be allowed to serve beer pitchside amongst the feathers and geese poo this season SmileSmileSmile

All joking aside, the distraction point raised is 100% accurate, so many sports, so many clubs, and attracting the players without splashing the cash is extremely challenging when others are paying 2 or 3 times what you can afford, and players are being pulled in so many directions with so many choices.
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Golden Jackal View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Golden Jackal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2023 at 19:42
looking forward to a pitch side pint in March...hopefully the ground will have dried out by thenWink
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Thatbloke View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thatbloke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2023 at 20:36
Is that a serious comment - playing Nat2 rugby in front of 40!? (or even 41)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honestinjun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2023 at 22:34
no, it was just a bit of banter between clubs Thatbloke! We have actually worked hard in recent seasons to increase supporters, both home and away, and online with video streaming each game live (regularly getting 200/250 watching from all over the UK and overseas) and we get 150 to 250 actually attending most games, sometimes more, sometimes less. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tigerburnie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 2023 at 09:51
Leicester Lions are less than 5 miles from the Tigers Welford Road ground, they are at home this weekend and so are the Tigers. so circa 20,000 fans in one ground and a couple of hundred in the other on a good day.
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