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Premiership II plans announced
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*Stalwart View Drop Down
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Points: 330 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote *Stalwart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2024 at 20:40
Originally posted by sedgley dave sedgley dave wrote:

I suppose, Richard L, that when the Championship morphs into Prem II, those clubs might be expected to have similar Academy set ups? I am asking, not saying.

I read, somewhere, that Leeds (or Yorkshire) already has an RFU approved / supported academy, and a youngster from Cornwall might be able to progress at Pirates rather than have to trek to Exeter, when the change happens, if he can't already. Plus there would be Doncaster for the Yorkie boys. Again, I am asking, not stating.

The place you wouldn't want to be is the Cumbrian coast, Workington or Whitehaven! Or somewhere like Great Yarmouth.

Many years ago, when both clubs were in the second tier, the academy was taken away from The Pirates and given to Exeter because they had better facilities. This has meant that Exeter now hoover up all the top talent in Cornwall (mostly through their link up with Truro College). It is a shame that Cornish boys have to trek to Exeter to chase their dream of being a pro rugby player. The hope was that the new stadium in Truro would provide top class facilities and maybe convince the powers that be to nurture the talent in Cornwall rather than exporting it to England. Now, sadly, the stadium dream has died so the status quo remains.
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Points: 76 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Breakdown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 hours 22 minutes ago at 08:11
This from The Daily Telegraph last night: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2024/09/12/premiership-considering-proposal-anglo-welsh-league/

Can anyone explain to me how Premiership Rugby would reconcile a British & Irish League that replaces the current English Tier One with the Professional Game "Partnership", so much heralded about a week ago?

How could PRL be "partners" to an English game on which they have just turned their back for the sake of money?

And how could the RFU justify continuing to pay the £33m a year to the Premiership clubs when they had all just decided their future was best guaranteed by playing against Irish, Scottish and Welsh clubs in a league that could, presumably, not envisage promotion and relegation?

What strikes me as particularly weird about this is the timing. Normally when you see a leaked proposal of this kind, it is 'kite-flying' aimed at adding what American management consultants call 'leverage' to a commercial negotiation. But the Premiership has just signed a huge commercial negotiation with the RFU (or 'us' as I continue to think of it, despite all available evidence to the contrary). So who are they trying to 'lever'?

Maybe it is, as the Telegraph hints, an effort to create a market for TV rights. The £26m a year (for only 2 years) that PRL received from Discovery for their rights was way below the target figure set for their management by the clubs.

All very confusing. But when it comes to the Professional Game Partnership, i am reminded of an old joke in a TV industry that a 'partnership' with the BBC was something to BBC does TO you. The RFU looks very naive in this light.  
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Points: 6577 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 hours 7 minutes ago at 08:26
Originally posted by Breakdown Breakdown wrote:

This from The Daily Telegraph last night: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2024/09/12/premiership-considering-proposal-anglo-welsh-league/

Can anyone explain to me how Premiership Rugby would reconcile a British & Irish League that replaces the current English Tier One with the Professional Game "Partnership", so much heralded about a week ago?

How could PRL be "partners" to an English game on which they have just turned their back for the sake of money?

And how could the RFU justify continuing to pay the £33m a year to the Premiership clubs when they had all just decided their future was best guaranteed by playing against Irish, Scottish and Welsh clubs in a league that could, presumably, not envisage promotion and relegation?

What strikes me as particularly weird about this is the timing. Normally when you see a leaked proposal of this kind, it is 'kite-flying' aimed at adding what American management consultants call 'leverage' to a commercial negotiation. But the Premiership has just signed a huge commercial negotiation with the RFU (or 'us' as I continue to think of it, despite all available evidence to the contrary). So who are they trying to 'lever'?

Maybe it is, as the Telegraph hints, an effort to create a market for TV rights. The £26m a year (for only 2 years) that PRL received from Discovery for their rights was way below the target figure set for their management by the clubs.

All very confusing. But when it comes to the Professional Game Partnership, i am reminded of an old joke in a TV industry that a 'partnership' with the BBC was something to BBC does TO you. The RFU looks very naive in this light.  

I am surprised it has taken this long for the suggestions of a British and Irish League to emerge, I thought it would have been one of the first suggestions of CVC, once they bought into both leagues, to 'leverage' their investment and get some return from it. 

What makes the concept difficult is the South African involvement in the URC.  Would they (and the Italians) be included in any revamped competition?   Could we see a combined league but with conferences - (and maybe extended to include other countries - I'm not thinking of the logic here of Georgian or Spanish teams but that pipedream of the USA)?

Personally I don't see it happening in the short term - something will happen in the longer term, possibly once existing contracts end. 
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Points: 6577 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 hours 6 minutes ago at 08:27
Originally posted by sedgley dave sedgley dave wrote:

I suppose, Richard L, that when the Championship morphs into Prem II, those clubs might be expected to have similar Academy set ups? I am asking, not saying.

I read, somewhere, that Leeds (or Yorkshire) already has an RFU approved / supported academy, and a youngster from Cornwall might be able to progress at Pirates rather than have to trek to Exeter, when the change happens, if he can't already. Plus there would be Doncaster for the Yorkie boys. Again, I am asking, not stating.

The place you wouldn't want to be is the Cumbrian coast, Workington or Whitehaven! Or somewhere like Great Yarmouth.


But there will be no money for Premiership 2 clubs to run academies - and the Premiership 1 clubs wouldn't want them to have money to compete for talent. 
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Mark W-J View Drop Down
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The academies are like franchises - the licence to run it is granted by the RFU, and they carve up the county pathways to decide which clubs the young players will feed into. This is the main reason why clubs outside the Prem have closed their academies - their best players were being hoovered up by the system from around age 13.

Last week the RFU published a map of the new boundaries for the 10 regional academies. There used to be 14, but London Irish, Wasps and Worcester (which have been run under regional names for the last year or two) have now disappeared, as has the Yorkshire one which was originally run by Leeds.
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For me the reconciliation of PRL discussions about B&I league are based on the CVC ownership and the rose-tinted glasses (I have a pair) around an Anglo-Welsh league.

PRL need to discuss every version of the future if they're doing their job properly.

The definitions of what is a club is so different in the 4 countries that I just can't see it happening.

England should be trying to emulate French rugby as much as possible and trim it to suit the fan base.
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Originally posted by Mark W-J Mark W-J wrote:

The academies are like franchises - the licence to run it is granted by the RFU, and they carve up the county pathways to decide which clubs the young players will feed into. This is the main reason why clubs outside the Prem have closed their academies - their best players were being hoovered up by the system from around age 13.

Last week the RFU published a map of the new boundaries for the 10 regional academies. There used to be 14, but London Irish, Wasps and Worcester (which have been run under regional names for the last year or two) have now disappeared, as has the Yorkshire one which was originally run by Leeds.


It beats me why local clubs engage with the Academy system at all. You get an email each season encouraging coaches to bring their best players along to be vetted. If they do get into the pathway the likelihood is that they will be spat out by 17. By this time they are disheartened and had their fill of rugby.

Benefit to local club = Zero

Create your own academies that are club agnostic. If you have a great player then they at least have a choice of multiple clubs they could play with home or abroad. 
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Originally posted by Breakdown Breakdown wrote:

This from The Daily Telegraph last night: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2024/09/12/premiership-considering-proposal-anglo-welsh-league/

Can anyone explain to me how Premiership Rugby would reconcile a British & Irish League that replaces the current English Tier One with the Professional Game "Partnership", so much heralded about a week ago?

How could PRL be "partners" to an English game on which they have just turned their back for the sake of money?

And how could the RFU justify continuing to pay the £33m a year to the Premiership clubs when they had all just decided their future was best guaranteed by playing against Irish, Scottish and Welsh clubs in a league that could, presumably, not envisage promotion and relegation?

What strikes me as particularly weird about this is the timing. Normally when you see a leaked proposal of this kind, it is 'kite-flying' aimed at adding what American management consultants call 'leverage' to a commercial negotiation. But the Premiership has just signed a huge commercial negotiation with the RFU (or 'us' as I continue to think of it, despite all available evidence to the contrary). So who are they trying to 'lever'?

Maybe it is, as the Telegraph hints, an effort to create a market for TV rights. The £26m a year (for only 2 years) that PRL received from Discovery for their rights was way below the target figure set for their management by the clubs.

All very confusing. But when it comes to the Professional Game Partnership, i am reminded of an old joke in a TV industry that a 'partnership' with the BBC was something to BBC does TO you. The RFU looks very naive in this light.  

Breakdown I can answer all your questions at once - ££££

Logic, honesty, duty and integrity are words that are foreign to PRL and the RFU and form no part of any decision making.
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Points: 5332 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FHLH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 hours 4 minutes ago at 15:29
Originally posted by JZSmith JZSmith wrote:

[Q
Breakdown I can answer all your questions at once - ££££

Logic, honesty, duty and integrity are words that are foreign to PRL and the RFU and form no part of any decision making.
"My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts."
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