National League Rugby Discussion Forum Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > League Rugby - www.leaguerugby.co.uk > The Championship
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Clubs' Statement on Pro Game Agreement
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

IMPORTANT Remember to read the rules of the board and abide by them when posting.

Clubs' Statement on Pro Game Agreement

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 234
Author
Message
Halliford View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 17 Feb 2010
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 4242
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halliford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2024 at 16:44
Originally posted by Paul10 Paul10 wrote:

I asked earlier about a reference to Value in Kind.

The RFU has a big Marketing operation. The Championship clubs have mixed Marketing efforts.

I could see RFU doing Marketing for the Prem II sides and that counting towards the funding of the clubs.

Exactly what is proposed.
Back to Top
Paul10 View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 24 Mar 2023
Location: Milton Keynes
Status: Offline
Points: 739
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2024 at 16:48
Originally posted by Halliford Halliford wrote:

Originally posted by WEvans WEvans wrote:


But what the RFU fail to understand (or deliberately ignore) is the fact that these Premiership players they so badly need do not miraculously turn up at the Premiership clubs or their academies from nowhere. They come from grassroots clubs - the same grassroots clubs the RFU have abandoned.


It is interesting that in announcing today the England U20 team to play Georgia as an Under 20 World Cup warm-up, the RFU gives for each player the Premiership Club to which they are attached AND the grassroots Club they came from.

Gives me a chuckle when it's a Welsh club.

It's a nice touch.
Back to Top
FHLH View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar
Cambridge

Joined: 19 Apr 2009
Location: Cambridge
Status: Offline
Points: 5410
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FHLH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2024 at 17:02
Originally posted by Paul10 Paul10 wrote:

Gives me a chuckle when it's a Welsh club.

It's a nice touch.

Mold are clearly doing their job for the greater good šŸŗšŸŗ
"My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts."
Back to Top
knightandday View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar
Doncaster Knights

Joined: 21 May 2007
Location: Lincoln
Status: Offline
Points: 1769
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote knightandday Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2024 at 17:05
Originally posted by islander islander wrote:

Originally posted by castleparknight castleparknight wrote:

Doncaster Knights have done all that was asked of them - to then say sorry guys you have no chance because we are locking the door seems, to me, a travesty. But seeing as the RFU donā€™t really care nothing is likely to change their mindsā€¦.I would really appreciate being proven wrong but doubt it.

they finished 6th! Confused

I think the point was, at least we were in a position to try and make the step up. (If that is a sensible step to take is another matter) How many Clubs entered the audit process? No wonder the RFU think that the Championship clubs have no ambition. 

Winning isn't everything, it just makes the beer taste better
Back to Top
Paul10 View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 24 Mar 2023
Location: Milton Keynes
Status: Offline
Points: 739
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2024 at 17:22

Mold are clearly doing their job for the greater good šŸŗšŸŗ
[/QUOTE]

I saw St Peters RFC in there for one game and thought hang on, that's in Cardiff!
Back to Top
castleparknight View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 07 Jun 2012
Location: Doncaster
Status: Online
Points: 3023
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote castleparknight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2024 at 17:26
They, the RFU, set minimum standards to ensure that they had a way of blocking clubs, we met the standards, spent the money and now they want to close the door. Not about what position we finished,Islander, but they set criteria and now want to move the goalpost completely out of reachā€¦ hope that simplifies things
Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny!
Back to Top
Nat1 View Drop Down
First XV regular
First XV regular


Joined: 31 Dec 2023
Location: Not given
Status: Offline
Points: 122
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nat1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2024 at 18:55
Originally posted by KnightsBoy KnightsBoy wrote:

Originally posted by SK 88 SK 88 wrote:

Originally posted by KnightsBoy KnightsBoy wrote:

Of the 5000 (sic, SK edit: 500ish) players how many can represent England

About 400, and about 40 of the rest could have if the RFU had been interested enough to cap them (e.g. Matavesi, Tompkins, seemingly Gus Warr). 

I find these figures very worrying, of the 5000 players in the prem only 400 to 500 are eligible to to play for England, staggering.

Really hope these are incorrect 

Don't worry, these are definitely incorrect. 

Where did the '5000 Premiership players' number come from? That would be about the total number of every player playing from the top of the Prem all the way down to the bottom of the Nat 2 leagues! 

The more accurate figure is 500-ish depending on the associated academy sizes (if you include them) and around 80% of these 500 players are typically eligible to play for England. 

As has been publicised, squad sizes are being reduced to be more equal across the board as the likes of Bath have had around 70 on their books recently, whereas Sale and Saints closer to 50.

How many of these 500 players have played any regular rugby at Regional 1 - Champ level before being signed professionally would be interesting to know, but I'd wager very few as a % of the total (and even less % in the England squad), most would have been picked up from a select number of rugby playing schools (usually private) or university.

Although I would point out that Sarries and England reserve hooker Theo Dan bucks this trend having played for Stortford just a few seasons ago, so there are exceptions to the rule.
Back to Top
KnightsBoy View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 31 Oct 2010
Location: Doncaster
Status: Offline
Points: 2877
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KnightsBoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2024 at 19:19
Originally posted by islander islander wrote:

Originally posted by castleparknight castleparknight wrote:

Doncaster Knights have done all that was asked of them - to then say sorry guys you have no chance because we are locking the door seems, to me, a travesty. But seeing as the RFU donā€™t really care nothing is likely to change their mindsā€¦.I would really appreciate being proven wrong but doubt it.

they finished 6th! Confused

Didn't see cpk had responded


Edited by KnightsBoy - 06 Jun 2024 at 19:55
Back to Top
SK 88 View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 08 Sep 2011
Location: Leicester
Status: Online
Points: 598
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SK 88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2024 at 20:53
Originally posted by KnightsBoy KnightsBoy wrote:

Originally posted by SK 88 SK 88 wrote:

Originally posted by KnightsBoy KnightsBoy wrote:

Of the 5000 (sic, SK edit: 500ish) players how many can represent England

About 400, and about 40 of the rest could have if the RFU had been interested enough to cap them (e.g. Matavesi, Tompkins, seemingly Gus Warr). 

I find these figures very worrying, of the 5000 players in the prem only 400 to 500 are eligible to to play for England, staggering.

Really hope these are incorrect 

There are 500 players, not 5000. 50 per club. 40 are EQP, typically. 
Back to Top
KnightsBoy View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 31 Oct 2010
Location: Doncaster
Status: Offline
Points: 2877
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KnightsBoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2024 at 21:34
Originally posted by SK 88 SK 88 wrote:

Originally posted by KnightsBoy KnightsBoy wrote:

Originally posted by SK 88 SK 88 wrote:

Originally posted by KnightsBoy KnightsBoy wrote:

Of the 5000 (sic, SK edit: 500ish) players how many can represent England

About 400, and about 40 of the rest could have if the RFU had been interested enough to cap them (e.g. Matavesi, Tompkins, seemingly Gus Warr). 

I find these figures very worrying, of the 5000 players in the prem only 400 to 500 are eligible to to play for England, staggering.

Really hope these are incorrect 

There are 500 players, not 5000. 50 per club. 40 are EQP, typically. 
looks like I misread big style šŸ˜”
Back to Top
Big Eddie View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 5045
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Eddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2024 at 05:49
The thing that exercises me greatly is the lack of transparency from the RFU. They spin and dissemble rather than being transparent and open. They talk about Prem 2 having £4 m funding per annum but this is not what is proposedā€¦. it is actually £125k per club in cash £1.375m and the balance of £2.625 m in benefit in kind represented by the RFUā€™s marketing efforts on behalf of the Championship šŸ˜‚šŸ˜‚ 

Who does the RFU think believes any of thatā€¦. it is pure spin. Why are they not open and transparent?

For clarity re the £125k cash paymentā€¦. Circa £45k pa goes on insurance (not paid for by RFU) £65k pa goes on mandatory ambulance and medical attendance and the remaining small balance is swallowed up by the extra costs Championship level 2 Rugby entails. 

I am not complaining about Champ funding per se because the game below the Champ gets nothing but when the RFU concurs with minimum entry standards to get into the Premiership which will cost Champ clubs £millions it is beyond a joke.

There are 4 or 5 sides in the Championship that can realistically aspire to the Premiershipā€¦ if I was a supporter of Coventry, Donny, Ealing , Pirates or Bedford I would be even more annoyed than I already am.
''The future isn't what it used to be''
Back to Top
gerg_861 View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 11 Jun 2017
Location: Ealing
Status: Offline
Points: 2689
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gerg_861 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2024 at 06:03
Originally posted by Big Eddie Big Eddie wrote:

The thing that exercises me greatly is the lack of transparency from the RFU. They spin and dissemble rather than being transparent and open. They talk about Prem 2 having £4 m funding per annum but this is not what is proposedā€¦. it is actually £125k per club in cash £1.375m and the balance of £2.625 m in benefit in kind represented by the RFUā€™s marketing efforts on behalf of the Championship šŸ˜‚šŸ˜‚ 

Who does the RFU think believes any of thatā€¦. it is pure spin. Why are they not open and transparent?

For clarity re the £125k cash paymentā€¦. Circa £45k pa goes on insurance (not paid for by RFU) £65k pa goes on mandatory ambulance and medical attendance and the remaining small balance is swallowed up by the extra costs Championship level 2 Rugby entails. 

I am not complaining about Champ funding per se because the game below the Champ gets nothing but when the RFU concurs with minimum entry standards to get into the Premiership which will cost Champ clubs £millions it is beyond a joke.

There are 4 or 5 sides in the Championship that can realistically aspire to the Premiershipā€¦ if I was a supporter of Coventry, Donny, Ealing , Pirates or Bedford I would be even more annoyed than I already am.

Every indication, and rumor is that Sir Mike Gooley is fed up with throwing money at the squad to chase promotion. There is still huge investment in the ground, but the team is being told to focus on using talent developed through Brunel. You also saw that Ealing didnt bother with the minimum standards audit. So it looks like the RFUs has finally managed to drive a few million pounds of investment out of the game. Well done.
Back to Top
Big Eddie View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 5045
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Eddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2024 at 06:05
Coventry have the history, the catchment area, the growing match day support, the ambition and most importantly financial stability. Doncaster are in a similar positionā€¦.. how does the RFU justify hugely slanting the playing field against these clubs to the benefit of the members of the CVC/RFU/Premiership Cartel? 

It is disgraceful protectionism that should have no place in Rugby šŸ‰ or anywhere else as far as I am concerned.

Sid and WEvans are right level 2 and below should just vote out the current RFU Executiveā€¦. sell off Twickenham to CVC or the highest bidder and set up a new organisation to administer club rugby
''The future isn't what it used to be''
Back to Top
workerbee View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 20 May 2009
Location: Wirral
Status: Offline
Points: 918
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote workerbee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2024 at 10:08
With regards to the RFU taking over the Marketing of the Championship and being paid for via a proportion of the £4m deal. You only have to look back a couple of years when the RFU were actually responsible for the Marketing of the Championship and did suck a poor job that clubs were waiting until the last minute so see if they had to put a sponsors logo on their shirts, which never materialised and they were only too happy to pass the Marketing over to the Championship to run it themselves, and now they want it back!! more of a bank balance switching exercise give it in one hand take with the other.  
Back to Top
Paul10 View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 24 Mar 2023
Location: Milton Keynes
Status: Offline
Points: 739
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2024 at 14:50

[/QUOTE]

There are 500 players, not 5000. 50 per club. 40 are EQP, typically. 
[/QUOTE]

Context arrives.
Tomorrow's Prem final.
Bath have 4 non-EQP (5 if Gallagher has played for Italy)
Saints have 2

6 from 30 is dead on the rate of 50 per club 40 EQP.
Back to Top
WEvans View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 08 Dec 2016
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 1456
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WEvans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2024 at 14:57
Originally posted by Halliford Halliford wrote:

Originally posted by WEvans WEvans wrote:


But what the RFU fail to understand (or deliberately ignore) is the fact that these Premiership players they so badly need do not miraculously turn up at the Premiership clubs or their academies from nowhere. They come from grassroots clubs - the same grassroots clubs the RFU have abandoned.


It is interesting that in announcing today the England U20 team to play Georgia as an Under 20 World Cup warm-up, the RFU gives for each player the Premiership Club to which they are attached AND the grassroots Club they came from.

Did it also explain why they have over the years cut funding to these clubs?
Back to Top
Big Eddie View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 5045
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Eddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2024 at 11:17
Well done Coventry, they are showing leadership and a progressive attitude which is to be admired.

In clubhouse chat I have made reference to a very likely restructuring of the game below level 2 which I fear will lead to a round of redundancies in lower and middle management/support within the RFU. My sources tell me that there is a proposal to be voted on shortly which will see the game below level 2 divided into 6 regions. I suspect that this restructuring is in reality just cover to take further cost out of the community game to pay for the new Professional Game Agreement.

If my sources are right and I have no reason to doubt them this is another raid by the RFU/Premiership/CVC cartel to the detriment of the game as a whole.

It looks as though the Community Game is being further ransacked for the benefit of 10 clubs, CVC and the RFU Executive
''The future isn't what it used to be''
Back to Top
BE57 REF View Drop Down
First XV squad
First XV squad
Avatar

Joined: 06 Apr 2012
Location: In the middle
Status: Offline
Points: 36
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BE57 REF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2024 at 11:32
Interesting that Seeeney has signed the joint sporting bodies ā€œgeneral electionā€ letter on behalf of the RFU which focuses on governmentā€™s obligation to invest in community sport. Couldnā€™t find it on RFU website but the FA have it at https://www.thefa.com/news/2024/jun/07/joint-letter
Just call me "Sir".
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 234
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.04
Copyright ©2001-2021 Web Wiz Ltd.