Autumn Internationals 2024

Still lost but great theatre.

And 100% agree with Islander. 👍 

It was an impressive Siva Tau, and a properly respectful response from England.

 And on how many other days has one of them actually twitched and it 'all kicked off?' 

Comparing international test match rugby (and the elite athletes playing it) to gnarly boxing weigh ins is totally pointless, it's an irrelevant point. The two are poles apart in terms of the sports themselves, but more importantly, in terms of the character, attitude, demeanour (on the whole) of those taking part.

The other post re Brian Moore and the mutual respect between England and the All Blacks hits the nail on the head, and I completely agree with this viewpoint. Long may this tradition and the subtle values that it encapsulates equally on the part of the All Blacks and whoever their opponents are on a given day continue.

Scotland & Fiji teams Scotland: Rowe; Graham, Jones, S Tuipulotu (capt), Van der Merwe; Hastings, Price; Schoeman, Ashman, Z Fagerson, Gilchrist, Cummings, M Fagerson, Darge, Dempsey. Replacements: Richardson, Sutherland, Rae, Williamson, Brown, Dobie, Jordan, McDowall. Fiji: Ravula; Karawalevu, Vota, Tabuavou, Loganimasi; Muntz, Lomani; Hetet, Ikanivere (capt), Tawake, Nasilasila, Rotuisolia, Derenalagi, Salawa, Canakaivata. Replacements: Dolokoto, Natave, Koroiduadua, Vocevoce, Miramira, Kuruvoli, Valetini, Nalaga.

In the Pacific Island culture, I believe that's called a hongi and is a greeting gesture.  But personally, I'd love to see some more of that fronting up to the dance in union and removal of any special protections it has.

Great that you deny sl@gg1ng someone off, and then in the very next breath talk down to them by saying they "would do well to educate themselves". I'm perfectly aware of the background to the haka, thanks, and saw it at Twickenham in 1973, albeit with limited memory of that day due to being knee-high to a grasshopper.

The 1970s version was pretty insipid - look at the famous Baabaas game in Cardiff on Youtube, but then they ramped it up after Buck Shelford got hold of it. No coincidence that the recent (40ish years) evolution of the haka has come in step with the larger proportion of Polynesian players in the NZ squad and the development of the All Black (TM) brand, which is now so huge that they can charge a seven figure appearance fee for a game like tomorrow's. World Rugby (the IRB) is afraid to confront them, in the way that Indian cricket is allowed to do much as it likes by the ICC. Hence the haka retains its place as the last act before a match kicks off, even after the anthems and even if NZ are playing away. It's great that the Maoris get a fairer crack of the whip in asserting their cultural identity than was the case 50 years ago, just as it's good that Aboriginal Australians can do the same before a game. The difference being that Australia don't turn up at Twickenham, Ellis Park, Lansdowne Road or wherever and tell the home team that they'll be doing their cultural ceremonial bit in the centre of the pitch, after the anthems, 60 seconds before KO.

I'm not seeking to ban the haka (and nor is Joe Marler as specified in his recent clarification) but I don't like the way it has become sanitised/corporatised, with TV cameras in between the teams and rules about what the opponents may do. When a handful of England players at the outer edges of the 'V' formation adopted in Yokohama in RWC 2019 crossed the halfway line, they were fined - what nonsense! I won't repeat my other objections, as above, but quite a few people seemed to agree with them.

But allowing them so close as to permit physical contact, as happened in the league game last weekend, goes too far the other way, in my opinion. You don't have to agree with this view, but I don't see why you should belittle it.

TNT Sports has a 'haka cam' tomorrow - going too far I think.

Interesting discussion about this in the almost-always-excellent Ruck podcast from the Times...